Technical Rainwater!

[bollie69]

I don't think that's quite right... My car gets water under the seats even when stationary. I've sat inside and watched when it's raining to work it all out. The water comes in through the deteriorating seam between the hood and the plastic window. It then drips onto the hood cover and runs towards the sides of the car. If I'm lucky it drains out of the gap to the outside, if not, it goes one of two ways: into the hood compartment, or it trickles down the area near the seatbelt and under the seats. s130 posted a while ago about fixing something up with a plastic bottle which forces the water backwards. That sounds quite good. I find that if I trail a rag from the hood cover over the edge towards the hood compartment, then the water follows this route - thereby keeping the floor dry.

Anyway, I've had enough of wet B's, so I've decided to move to a house with a garage!

buying a new roof would be cheaper me dunks

 

[s130]

I think I can answer this one ("Now to find out why the floor floods behind the passenger seat!")

There are three possible reasons that I have encountered:

1) water leaking in the door recess and crossing the door seal threshold. This can be due to dirt on the door seal and/or dirt on the inner door reveals where the door seal closes. ALSO many a seat belt buckle gets shut in the door recess putting small dents in the door metal that can not be sealed by the rubber door seal. In both cases water travels along the seal till a "bringe point" is found and then just crosses the boundary into the inside of the car.

2) water getting in round the hood compartment lid. This most frequently occurs at the end tips of the hood lid, above the "B" post where the rear dual channel seal merges into a combined moulding that also interfaces with the folding hood "B" post window seal.

In case 2) water entering here drops down inside the car. I lands on the top off the rear bulkhead with most water running down into the hood well area. However some wat runs down forward, behind the passenger compartment rear bulkhead lining. When dopping down behind this linening some water will emerge at the bottom of the lining panel and move forwards into and on top of the rear footwell liner/carpet. Some water will also drop down behind into the base of the rear foot well beneath the floor liner/carpet.

I've had this problem several times and have devised a divertion vane to force any water off the top of the bulkhead into the hood well area where it is more easily dealt with.

The 3) rd reason is due to a leak in the rear screen or stitching. Any water getting in via this root drops down onto the inside top edge of the hood lid. It then runs around till it encounters the rear hood clam seal. I then runs around and along this seal and finally drops off at/into the area desribed in 2) above.

Hope this helps.

 

[spiderboy]

Thank you. I've solved the mystery now. The water was coming in through the rear window stitching on the right hand side. As you say, some goes in the hood comp and some runs down the liner behind the seat. I'm getting a new hood soon!

 

[RightGuard]

By they way,

I don't fully understand what is under the hood storage area lining. Sorry to be trouble but I just want to get a solid understanding before I go tearing it up.

Am I right in saying that there is two pipes under there to drain water off? If so, can I just drain two holes downwards in either side of the hood storage bottom lining? This would solve ALL my problems with water intrusion.

Thanks for your time,

Chris

 

[spiderboy]

Chris I haven't put my liner back in yet. I'll take some pics and post them later if I get chance today.
Cheers
John

 

[s130]

And while the pictures are in transit.......

Basically in the well recess either side are two rubber blanking plugs. With these removed you can see into a lower chassis section. There are no drain tubes!

Now what I DON'T understand is where this lower chassis section leads to?????

Letting water drain into it may not be such a good idea as although some water may drain out underneath the car it is possible that some goes elsewhere.

Anybody had a good look round with an endoscope and can definitely confirm that any water that enters this lower section can only drain out beneath the car?

 

[bollie69]

And while the pictures are in transit.......

Basically in the well recess either side are two rubber blanking plugs. With these removed you can see into a lower chassis section. There are no drain tubes!

Now what I DON'T understand is where this lower chassis section leads to?????

Letting water drain into it may not be such a good idea as although some water may drain out underneath the car it is possible that some goes elsewhere.

Anybody had a good look round with an endoscope and can definitely confirm that any water that enters this lower section can only drain out beneath the car?

Told you:bang:

 

[spiderboy]

Ok, I have taken some pics and I hope they are self explanatory. You'll see the holes in the shelf. There are no tubes to conduct the water away, but I have poured water in and it all seems to come out under the car. The fuel tank lives under there. I'm pretty certain it all comes out. Don't forget, water shouldn't be in there, so I guess the bungs are to drain it when it gets in??

As you can see, the shelf was rusting, so a quick rub down and a coat of hammerite, and it looks good. Then I replaced the liners, but I cut off the horizontal part of the lower one so that it cannot hold water. In the last pic you can see that I used a couple of old rubber floor mats to cover the painted shelf and these sit just above so won't get wet or hold water.
Until I get my new hood water will still get in. but it won't stay in!

 

[s130]

Told you:bang:

Sure you said in a earlier append "don't remove the bungs" but you didn't say why?

Spiderboy thinks these holes lead ourside of the chassis and all water drains out onto the ground.

 

[RightGuard]

Cheers for that spiderboy, Will get the foam out today to see if there is any rust.

I am just going to get the lining out and dry it, then make sure all of it is sealed up, so hopefully no problems in the future.

I am just going to try to seal up the top hood compartment seal because that has deteriorated in the same place on both sides. I am sure this is letting in a huge amount of water.

Also, if you un-clamp the hood, and fold it in the middle (so you can have the hood compartment lid open, without the hood tucked away), and you look in the area behind the seat belt, and near the seal, then you can see a hole. Is this a drain hole? That whole area was filled with leaves etc and I thought that that may be blocking it and flowing over.

That was a long winded explanation, but if you need photos, just ask. Lol.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[s130]

If you are referring to recess channel behind the belt area where the double seals meet then yes there are two drain holes. One either side. They connect to tubes which drain out in the rear/wheel arch area (somewhere).

You should check they are clear and that water does drain away through them.

 

[RightGuard]

Hiya,

Yes, I checked, and they drain properly.

I took all of the lining out, and all is fine. No rust etc, but clumsy me, I went and prodded one of those bungs straight through :bang:. As s130 said, it would be great to get a endoscope down there. There was one in lidl the other day for £69! I was going to get one but they went like hot cakes. I looked under the car and the water from the bung drains out of some sort of rubber-protected hole onto the road.

I see that people are concerned about where the water actually goes. I had an idea, get some hollow pipe and put it up the drain hole until it gets to the hole where the bung was, then, drill a hole in the bung for the pipe to fit in, so you can be confident that water will go straight out and nowhere else. Then you can drill holes in the lining to make sure no water collects under the hood.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[spiderboy]

Oh never noticed that hole! I'll go look! Cheers Chris

 

[Snailshed]

I'm glad that all this group effort seems to have worked out how to fix water in the hood well. Given that getting the floor mat / liner out of the bottom of the car (which inevitably will have loads of trapped water under it) looks a nightmare how best is it to get the water in the footwells to drain away safely?

I'm getting bored of wiping up puddles with kitchen towel roll every few days and my Dad thought putting holes in the floor with a shot gun (a la Top Gear) seemed a bit drastic...

 

[spiderboy]

I have drilled a hole through each of those sunken rectangular hollows behind the seats and all the water drains out plus more from under the liner. I painted round the hole under the car. The holes are only 6 mm. I'll post pic later.

 

[RightGuard]

I have drilled a hole through each of those sunken rectangular hollows behind the seats and all the water drains out plus more from under the liner. I painted round the hole under the car. The holes are only 6 mm. I'll post pic later.

Please do, I don't understand where you mean

Thanks,

Chris

 

[s130]

Well just to give you all moral support our "B" is on the drive, all back and side trim removed, seats out, glovebox out and I've carefully cut the floor liner so I can remove both rear sections.

Yes we got water in the hood/side seals again. Some went in the hood well but some ran off the top of the bulkhead, down infront of the tank and under the matting.

Not funny. Second time Ive had to do this. The real annoying part is that the fllor liner backing foam is more like a kitchen sponge and just soaks up and retains the water. Verry difficult to dry out.

 

[bollie69]

There must be something wrong. My hood lid rubber is damaged too and it's still dry.
My bee has been on the street for over 2 years now, the last 6 moths it has been cork dry. nothing gets in anymore.

 

[s130]

Well their is something partly wrong but I gather other have the same partly wrong feature as well.

We had our original vinyl hood replaced after 4/5 years. Despite careful car the rear screen eventually split, plus the vinyl top surface after 4/5 years of always being outdoors began to deteriorate.

So we had a posh mohair hood installed.

Now on the original hood sewn into the side skirt by the window/'B' post area is a small sention of rubber about 3 inches long. As far as I can tell (I did ask here ages ago) nobody who has had a replacement hood has had these seals on their new hoods. Indeed they have not been available from Fiat for a long time.

Now normally on the level and even when driving in hard rain the body profile in this area is enough to ensure the water drains away. You only get water in if you hosepipe spary directly at the area.

Our problem is that our drive slopes and is quite windy at times. These combined together is sometime enough to allow water to get in.

Now we have the rubber seals from the old hood and they are used to link the 'B' post down seal to the under hood rear seal but as it is not possible to bond then to the inside of the hood fabric and they can't be sewn in without completely stripping the mohair hood back off the frame. Thus we have to realy on a low surface pressure seal and sometimes it just doesn't sit snugly down.

Will often good for week and months then one day it leaks.

I have a some plastic 4 pint milk bottles cut to shape, sliding in under the out hood seal to catch and divert any water getting in back into the hood well so it doesn't run off the top of the bulkhead and down behind passenger compartment rear wall cover but sadly some is still getting down there.

Am now going to fit a full width plastic/polythene membrane over the bulk head and run it down behind the door recess seals and have a skirt that overlaps the floor covering at the bottom edge. Hopefully now any water getting in and over the bulkhead will just run over the membrane and off into and ON TOP of the rear footwell matting and not behind and under it.

 

[spiderboy]

Please do, I don't understand where you mean

Thanks,

Chris

Ok Chris, see the pic! Hope it makes sense.. Lots of rain here and NO WATER IN THE CAR!!!

I also found the little drain holes at the sides of the hood compartment seal and one was blocked. Cleared them both out with a long metal skewer.

The response to this thread has been amazing and I guess it just shows what a big problem water ingress is.. The B is after all a hand made car. Still love mine after five years of ownership.
Thanks for all the ideas and advice.