Quaife ATB/LSD for Cinq/Sei,GP,Panda...

[Brooky]

I have no ideas about ratio's, i just go with what its got really. Suppose nitranes diff may be a good starting point, as he has a straight cut crown wheel etc. his is 5.0:1

 

[randomizered]

Thinking about money a bit more, and the costs involved, I'll just stick with the LSD, so count me out on that one

Kristian

 

[GoBe]

I'll pull out on the crown wheel/output shaft as I'm wanting to lengthen the final drive not shorten it. Still in for the LSD though.

Nigelr32----Doing the organising!!!
KriTip------CHEQUE RECIEVED..........
J333EVO--- CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Rallycinq---
Brooky-----x2-PAID VIA INTERNET BANKING
Smiler121--CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Allanhelen--PAID VIA PAYPAL.............
GoBe------CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Jnoiles- IN THE POST
CT500-----
Mini Metaller---- CHEQUE ON ITS WAY

 

[allanhelen]

It might be worth splitting out the Group buy for the Crown wheel and output shaft as this is not depenant on the LSD and it may appeal to others (Even if most of the usual nutters are already signed up for the LSD:woot I know there are quiet a few people like me with a 5 speeds that are looking for taller gearing, how many of them would actually attemp a gearbag strip though is another thing

Edit: Only LSD for me if you hadn't gathered already

 

[Smiler121]

I wasn't planning to go for a 6 speed box myself & I have an MPi Seicento like Kristian which makes it likely I might hit this issue by the sounds of it.

Can anyone confirm that if my box has a bonded flywheel I can or can't bolt on a replacement?

Also I can't get on ePer to check if this is an orderable part or something I'd have to try to source from a scrappy?

 

[MiniMetaller]

I'm still in, but just the LSD for me please.

 

[jnoiles]

I'm also still in, but just the LSD for me please.

cheers
Jason

 

[Smiler121]

I wasn't planning to go for a 6 speed box myself & I have an MPi Seicento like Kristian which makes it likely I might hit this issue by the sounds of it.

Can anyone confirm that if my box has a bonded *flywheel* I can or can't bolt on a replacement?

Also I can't get on ePer to check if this is an orderable part or something I'd have to try to source from a scrappy?

I need an answer on this & have no idea how to get one myself - I will have to pull out if I can't confirm that the diff we are buying will fit without swapping to a 6 speed box!!! (*By the way I meant crown wheel not flywheel earlier but was in a rush!!!)

Not having seen the bonded part up close, does it have the option to bolt on a replacement for the bonded part?

 

[randomizered]

As far as i can see, the Quaife diff being developed must have a bolt on crownwheel, so if yours is bonded it won't fit.

However if what Nige says is correct, there will be 5 speed boxes with the correct ratio crownwheel, that ARE bolted.

So, if you look at ePER, you should be able to order the crownwheel you need direct from fiat.....not a clue how much this would be though. An alternative is to browse a scrap yard until you find the right part.

I may have this all wrong though, so wait for someone elses input

Kristian

 

[allanhelen]

I need an answer on this & have no idea how to get one myself - I will have to pull out if I can't confirm that the diff we are buying will fit without swapping to a 6 speed box!!! (*By the way I meant crown wheel not flywheel earlier but was in a rush!!!)

Not having seen the bonded part up close, does it have the option to bolt on a replacement for the bonded part?

I've checked eper too and most cinq's are bolt on crown wheels so should be a straight swap. The bits that should come with the buy are the diff assembly, that basically requires you to remove the drive cog from your own car's diff an bolt it to the bits you recieve. There is no need to swap gear bag

However the small gamble you take is if your diff is not a bolt on crown wheel you would need to get hold of a bolt on version and maybe and this is just a maybe this could result in a bit more transmission noise

 

[Smiler121]

I've checked eper too and most cinq's are bolt on crown wheels so should be a straight swap. The bits that should come with the buy are the diff assembly, that basically requires you to remove the drive cog from your own car's diff an bolt it to the bits you recieve. There is no need to swap gear bag

However the small gamble you take is if your diff is not a bolt on crown wheel you would need to get hold of a bolt on version and maybe and this is just a maybe this could result in a bit more transmission noise

This is my understanding, what I am thinking is that if mine is also bonded - I have a late MPi Seicento just like Kristian who had the bonded example (& not a Cinquecento).

Is it definately possible to acquire a bolt on crown wheel - will the bonded version accept a bolt on wheel?

I mentioned the 6-speed as I basically meant I'm not planning to go for that option or I'd quickly use this whole issue as a way to justify fitting one sooner rather than later.

 

[randomizered]

I have a late MPi Seicento just like Kristian who had the bonded example

Think you are confused. I don't know if mine was bonded or not. The pics didn't show anything. Brooky has my mpi box now, but hasn't taken the diff out too check.

Is it definately possible to acquire a bolt on crown wheel - will the bonded version accept a bolt on wheel?

The bonded dif won't accept a bolt on crownwheel ...... BUT.....this diff is replacing your old diff, so the new diff WILL accept a bolt on crownwheel.

I mentioned the 6-speed as I basically meant I'm not planning to go for that option or I'd quickly use this whole issue as a way to justify fitting one sooner rather than later.

My 6 speed is dying, so im in a similar situation. Source another 6 speed box, get it rebuilt, or go for a cheap 5 speed. The diff issue isn't a biggie regardless of what i choose. It's easy to rectify

Kristian

 

[allanhelen]

I dont want a 6 speed either there only purpose is to cover the short comings of an engine

the worst case here is if your own diff crown wheel is the wrong type you have to get a bolt on version from Scrappies/new or whatever

For me this is a small enough risk to go ahead considering the gains after all how much is a scrap cento box/diff? less than a meal at the local pub?

 

[Smiler121]

Thanks for making sense of what I'd said Kristian - Sorry but it looks like I'd mis-read what people were talking about earlier. To be honest this is down to not having taken one apart & therefore not being entirely sure what was being described (or therefore what I'm talking about!!!).

So this brings things back purely to the issue that if it was bonded then the new or scrappy sourced crownwheel will have a different wear rate than the output shaft which I'd be re-using?

In which case I guess I can always get hold of a matched pair either new or re-cycled if mine aren't removeable.

Allenhellen - it isn't simply an issue over cost. I was getting confused about the assembly & which bit was which to be honest - did my reading extremely late last night & should have been more careful!!!

 

[allanhelen]

Allenhellen - it isn't simply an issue over cost. I was getting confused about the assembly & which bit was which to be honest - did my reading extremely late last night & should have been more careful!!!

No you are perfectly right to make sure and ask, this is not pocket money we are talking about here. This is only the 2nd FWD diff for me so i am on the still on the same learning curve too

From my perspective the worst case is i need to buy a new Gearbag/diff from a brakers and use that instead of my own diff.

 

[nigelr32]

Hi all, Just an update

Nigelr32----Doing the organising!!!...........
KriTip------CHEQUE RECIEVED..................
J333EVO--- CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Rallycinq--- ????????
Brooky-----x2 PAYMENT RECIEVED...........
Smiler121--CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Allanhelen--PAID VIA PAYPAL..................
GoBe------CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Jnoiles- IN THE POST
CT500-----????????
Mini Metaller---- CHEQUE ON ITS WAY

I dont think CT500 is in anymore, and the guy from Japan doesn't want to pay the £100 postage, (Cant say I blame him). If anyone else wants to pull out, please let me know asap.

 

[craigb244]

i know this is already sorted but i cant see that crown wheel just been an interference fit. i bet it is friction welded or something! gearbox and its oil can get very hot after hard driving so if it was only interferance fit it would have to be a huge interferance

anyway i wonder if ill be putting my hand deep into my pockets and adding name to the list after tomorrow? we will see.
i got deep pockets but short arms but it would be most my Ducati fund gone

 

[custard]

Hi all, Just an update

Nigelr32----Doing the organising!!!...........
KriTip------CHEQUE RECIEVED..................
J333EVO--- CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Rallycinq--- ????????
Brooky-----x2 PAYMENT RECIEVED...........
Smiler121--CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Allanhelen--PAID VIA PAYPAL..................
GoBe------CHEQUE ON ITS WAY
Jnoiles- IN THE POST
CT500-----????????
Mini Metaller---- CHEQUE ON ITS WAY

I dont think CT500 is in anymore, and the guy from Japan doesn't want to pay the £100 postage, (Cant say I blame him). If anyone else wants to pull out, please let me know asap.

http://www.transglobal.org.uk/

tried these guys for worldwide shipping costs?

 

[arc]

i know this is already sorted but i cant see that crown wheel just been an interference fit. i bet it is friction welded or something! gearbox and its oil can get very hot after hard driving so if it was only interferance fit it would have to be a huge interferance

it could well be. i know the 1.2 16v brava dif is easy to break. managed to break one doing a j-turn, as the wheels gripped again drive was lost. The rest of the box was fine, as was speedo drive - but once off, the diff didnt looked smashed, it makes sense to me that the crownwheel had become 'unbonded'. We replaced it with a punto diff, but this is still the same type of box / diff that is used on most of the FIRE engines

 

[craigb244]

if the speedo drive worked still (assuming it is mechanical like the cento) then that would say the diff was still spinning and maybe the damage was internal to the diff (stripped diff gears)

it just seems to me that having the final gear, and the one that takes most torque to be a simple compression fit

I really would think its friction welded (this is where the parts are a very loose interferance fit and a hefty machine holds one part and spins the other till they "stick"
*wikipedia - Spin welding
Main article: Spin welding
Spin welding systems consist of two chucks for holding the materials to be welded, one of which is fixed and the other rotating. Before welding one of the work pieces is attached to the rotating chuck along with a flywheel of a given weight. The piece is then spun up to a high rate of rotation to store the required energy in the flywheel. Once spinning at the proper speed, the motor is removed and the pieces forced together under pressure. The force is kept on the pieces after the spinning stops to allow the weld to "set".[2] This technique is also known as inertia welding, rotational welding or inertial friction weldin*