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Technical Power loss on hills in Twin Air

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Technical Power loss on hills in Twin Air

Panda IIs said:
Maybe a little back to basics, but does it roll freely? With such relatively low miles I wouldn't be surprised to find a binding handbrake or calliper?

TA DualLogic is a bit of a rare breed I think. Does it try and drop down a gear of its own accord? I'm not sure how it functions?

Finally there is no-way I would be going with an 18k mile Oil change/service period (mentioned above) OEM or not!
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Aye, it appears to free wheel on a slight incline so think that's ruled out too, yes it will drop a gear (or 2) as and when it needs it as its meant too. I had the Dualogic for 10years in my 500 abd I loved it. Never an issue. And as for the Oil Changes, I normally have them done on its annual service , so anything between 8 and 10 thousand miles....Thanks Panda11s
 
The Panda Nut said:
Pre 2017 it was 5w40 and 18K change interval but that was changed to 0W30 and 9K in 2017
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this isn’t right. My Euro6 TA was registered April 2016 and the h/book confirms the engine oil is 0W-30, so the change occurred prior to 2016 but I don’t know when - can anyone advise?
 

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JayAre said:
this isn’t right. My Euro6 TA was registered April 2016 and the h/book confirms the engine oil is 0W-30, so the change occurred prior to 2016 but I don’t know when - can anyone advise?
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My 1st TA was reg Jan 17. At that time they were saying 18K service when asked prior to sale but it was clearly 9K when checked up at delivery so it must have been changed shortly? before. Google suggests 1st Sept 15 was the when Euro 6 applied to most new registrations. April 15 would be a pretty early Euro 6? Logic says 0W30 oils could be used in any engine bit 5W40 viscocity might possibly not match the algorithms of mapping on euro 6 engines so would be better avoided? One thing is sure. Dont ask Fiat. Not much help there? My understanding was that it had only just changed prior to Jan 17 but I stand corrected.
 
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Wee Jimbo said:
Seeing as I only picked the car up on Saturday, I have only put fuel in the once (E10) I've tried the Eco mode both on and off and to be Honest, I noticed no difference whatsoever , so unless the switch isn't working lol??? It was also rather gutsy on the fuel on the way back home , so hopefully a goid service should fix it .
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I have the 85hp twin air and the difference between eco mode being on or off is literally night and day. It should also read a message on the screen when you press it saying eco mode enabled etc but it only pops up for a second when you press the button.

I did find mine got a bit sluggish at one point but then I changed the coil pack and plugs and it was back to being speedy. It might be worth a new set of plugs and coil pack anyway given it has been five years since its service and hasn’t done many miles since then. Bonus of a twin air is you only have to pay for two plugs!
 
I posted this reply to the other thread too… repeating here for completeness

Worth remembering we're talking here about a Panda with the DualLogic (auto) gearbox. I believe the effect of the Eco button is different with this set up. The handbook suggests it only does anything when the car is in auto mode (rather than manual), and, unlike the fully manual Panda where it noticeably alters the engine power curve, the inference is that with a DuaLogic version, instead it alters the point at which the auto shifts between the gears.

The previous (169) model Panda didn;t have an eco button option for the fully manual car, but did with the DualLogic... Certainly there, the 'eco' setting only altered the gear change points, and I suspect the same system (and behaviour) was carried over to the newer (312) models when fitted with that gearbox.
 
JayAre said:
this isn’t right. My Euro6 TA was registered April 2016 and the h/book confirms the engine oil is 0W-30, so the change occurred prior to 2016 but I don’t know when - can anyone advise?
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Euro5 vs Euro6

My 2013 models are one of each

And Dealers supposedly now only use the 0W-30, on all twinairs
 
euroben said:
I have the 85hp twin air and the difference between eco mode being on or off is literally night and day. It should also read a message on the screen when you press it saying eco mode enabled etc but it only pops up for a second when you press the button.

I did find mine got a bit sluggish at one point but then I changed the coil pack and plugs and it was back to being speedy. It might be worth a new set of plugs and coil pack anyway given it has been five years since its service and hasn’t done many miles since then. Bonus of a twin air is you only have to pay for two plugs!
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Yes.... Just bought two for mine from S4P £45 +VAT!! OK these are FIAT original but even £35 for the alternatives (+VAT) is mighty expensive. Worse than 4 for a 1.2!!!

Parts arrived 20:55hrs. Poor man had had a breakdown and must have been doing the 24 hour guaranteed deliveries that I think S4P must require. I just compared the Fiat genuine and Magnetti Mareli TA oil filters. There is quite a difference so I think I will just leave the MM one on the shelf until I can't afford to but a Fiat one. Im happy MM air filters are good enough so will take that saving. Being a TA I think internal engine stuff can remain FIat genuine for now. LOL
 
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Well Herts Hillhopper, The Panda Nut, Bonefish Blues, Twotone2 etc etc (Infact, All who replied with advice/Ideas.)
I am so grateful for all the assistance in both my threads (I will try and copy and paste this same reply to my other thread, wish me luck with it as I'm crap with Technology lol).
Anyway the story so far......
After noticing my "2015 TwinAir Dualogic" with only 11,000miles since new, that I only purchaced last Saturday, was really struggling up the Hills on the Motorways during my Journey home, I just assumed something wasn't quite right with it?
Now I realise it is only a 900cc Engine , but it is 85bhp due to the Turbo, So I automatically assumed there was some type of issue, from the Eco button perhaps not working so there for stuck in Eco mode, to perhaps just needing a good service or possibly something else???
The reason for my assumptions being the fact, I’ve heard /read, from a few different folks that the Twin Airs are Rapid and if not careful, you can pick up Speeding tickets very Easily.
Imagine my shock at my newly acquired Twin Air Dualogic struggling up the Hills and changing down to 3rd gear to get up them.
My Previous car was a 2013 Fiat 500 Dualogic which I had for 10 years and which clicked up approx 122,000 trouble free miles during my ownership.
My little 500 was in Eco mode, most of the time , the only difference when it was in normal mode with the Eco off was it held the gears for longer in-between gear changes. But, even in the Eco mode my wee 500 was Rapid off the mark and Could climb the same hills in 5th Gear at 80/85mph. I was advised to try switching from Eco on to Eco off going up a hill to check for a bit of Turbo boost, This resulted in a very slight power boost, (Nothing to write home about lol) but it did prove the Eco Switch was indeed working to change from Eco on to Eco off and vice versa.
On the way to drop off my car for a service yesterday evening, as suggested , I drove in Manual mode and it did appear to be a little bit livelier
I had the service carried out this afternoon , Oil (5/40) and Filter change, Spark Plugs change
and Air filter Change, and my mechanic checked all over for possible disconnected/loose connections /pipes etc etc with a clean bill of health.
I drove back home along the Motorway and although it has new clean oil etc etc, it still dropped down to 3rd gear and 50mph, reminding me of starting to drive in 1977 in my 850cc Mini lol.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my latest purchace that I've been after for a while now, Panda/Dualogic/Low milage etc etc, However, unnless someone can point me in the correct direction of a Guarantee Fix, it looks like I'll just have to accept its a lot slower and nowhere near as powerful as the little 500 I had for the last 10years lol...... Many Many thanks folks....... (Wee) Jimbo.
 
My bought new, 2018 4x4 TA with only 12000 odd miles on the clock, does not go well in ECO and does not like E10. So I don't use it with these.
Goes like a little Dingbat on Esso E5 and with ECO off
Despite it's small mileage it is serviced according to schedule and uses only Castrol Magnatec 0/30
 
Cheers for your reply Colin, I did try to also reply with a copy and Paste to update the Other thread I had which was down as Eco Switch, However, due to my lack of knowledge with computers and technology in General, I appear to have blocked myself from that thread lol. Afraid even with Eco off, My wee Panda is a slug on the Hills and doesn't even appear to move off the mark very quickly either. Like I said earlier, maybe I'm just compairing my Panda to my Previous 500 Dualogic which was a proper little Pocket rocket. .
 
1. This is very important - what did the private ad say about the car, and/or the seller say verbally? (you DO have consumer rights protection concerning this)
2. Did the service mechanic check for all possible error codes? (very important in your situation)
3. No-one’s mentioned turbo issues generally (only one re possible debris/stone damage to the intercooler) which, if it’s not working as it should, would be consistent with your symptoms
 
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As I said previously, with the DualLogic, the effect of the eco button should only be the holding (or not) of the gears for longer. So far as I know, it does not alter the engine power in the way it does with a fully manual Panda. I don't think it will gain or lose power by being pressed (but it would - and indeed does, noticeably - on the non DualLogic models, as others here have said)

I suspect that your gearbox is not altering its behaviour with the button pressed/not pressed... this may be software or may be mechanical. The DualLogic system is unique to Fiat/Alfa and there are not many folk able to fix it. You will need to use a 'real' Fiat garage, or an independent Fiat specialist with access to the MultiECUscan software to be able to actually 'see' what effect the button is having.

Given it went very well for you with the car in clutchless manual mode, I think that rules out the turbo as a possible cause. (I think it was the other thread where you commented on that?)

Pete
 
JayAre said:
1. This is very important - what did the private ad say about the car and/or the seller verbally? (you DO have consumer rights protection concerning this)
2. Did the service mechanic check for all possible error codes? (very important in your situation)
3. No-one’s mentioned the possibility of a turbo issue which, if it’s not working as it should, would be consistent with your symptoms
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I bought it privately from someone on here who has an excellent reputation and who specialises in Cat N writeoffs. In this case it was the N/S Passenger Doors that had been effected, since no issues with the seller as I knew exactly what I was Buying, To be Honest, he would only have driven it to it's MOT/Paint Shop/Valet etc from when he purchaced it in November last year. As for my mechanic . His readings did not show any defects, but then again, he will not have a top of the range machine for checking codes etc due to him actually only doing servicing etc for Family and Friends due to the fact he is now retired and only does those homers to keep his hand in and for something to do. If necessary, I can get it booked into my local Garage who I know have all the Electronic wizardry to check for anything Major. Cheers JayAre..... Jimbo.
 
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