Technical Poorly Giardiniera

[MelSmith]

Hi,

I’m new to this group and have a 1969 Giardiniera which has just decided to stop working. It was last run a couple of weeks ago and, although it took a while to start initially, once it did so, it ran beautifully for its first run of the year.

I tried to start it again last weekend and got nothing….as in, the lights were on but nothing doing at the starter. I charged the battery, which was a little flat and tried again, but apart from the occasional sluggish half-turn, still nothing.

I then removed and inspected the starter and, whilst I wasn’t certain that was the problem, it is very tired and everything is very well worn. So, I bought a replacement and was assured it is fine and working (I believe them). Fitted it and on first starting attempt, the cable snapped

Replaced cable and it seemed to spin over nicely (though I didn’t start it), so assumed all was well.

However, as I was putting it all back together, I noticed that in the transmission tunnel, the positive feed from the battery goes across from the entry point to he other side, threading between the handbrake cables and was then catching on the side of the handbrake pulley. Whilst the damage to the rubber may have been caused by me trying to re-tension the handbrake, it looks like it will always be vulnerable to being snagged as the handbrake is applied and released. A couple of years ago, this cable was changed (not by me) as it was shorting in the tunnel and it looks like the same thing will start to happen again very soon.

The car has now has gone back to not starting and just sluggishly doing very little.

So, (thanks to those still reading!) firstly, I am asking what I should do next to identify the problem. Could it be the damage to the outer rubber on the battery feed? Though there is still power getting to the starter… what other electrics could explain the problem? Could it be something else entirely?

Secondly, I am wondering if anyone knows how the positive battery cable should route through the tunnel - should it really thread between the handbrake cables and how can I stop it getting caught and wearing? Does anyone have any pictures of a better route when I inevitably have to replace it again?

Finally, does anyone know how long the battery cable for the Giardiniera is? I know it is longer than the normal 500, which seems to be 2550mm (from a previous thread on here) and I can find some people selling cables that are 2650mm that claim to be universal and fit the Giardiniera but I would like to be certain as they ain’t cheap

I’ve added some pics to try to explain the current routing and show the wear on the cable.

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

 

[the green vanper]

For the cables (both positive and negative), unless you want to keep it 100% original, just go to a local welding hardware shop, buy good quality (copper, not CCA) welding wire (they are sellling it by meters/feet) of the proper diameter cut to length, ask them to add corresponding terminals with their crimping tool (they shall have one), add some heatshrink on the connection and they will last longer than the rest of the car There's also an earth strap from body to engine (or gearbox) which might need replacement, too. And check if the grounding points on the body are not rusted, if so, find another one. In such case getting a longer wire might be needed, so check it before you buy the wire.

That's the earth strap replacement for my non-FIAT daily I made myself (I own a hydraulic crimping tool from Aliexpress):

 

[giardini]

Just as an observation, my Giardi never had an earth strap of any sort, I always figured that the substantial engine-to-rear-crossmember anchor was doing the job. Your might want to repair/reinforce the insulation on the starter cable just where it's damaged and then slightly modify the routing to avoid the
rubbing points (which you'd have to do anyway, and cheaper than a replacement).
As for the slow cranking, I would first try to start it with jumper cables from a known good battery to eliminate that possibility. A battery that shows less than 12 V is not a little flat, it's knackered .

 

[MelSmith]

Thanks both for your replies. A new battery, new starter and new starter cable, plus a slightly shonky repair on the positive battery feed in the tunnel (access was extremely tight, so it’s a bodge of insulating tape, plus a cable tie to try to hold it clear of the handbrake pulley which is full of sharp bits) seems to have more or less worked - it has now started, just in time for the rain to come in to prevent a decent test run

As ever, I should’ve checked the simplest thing again… just because the battery was ok a couple of weeks ago and just because it was on charge last night, doesn’t mean it isn’t knackered.having tested it after being on charge all night, it was reading 10.4volts….doh!

 

[the green vanper]

10,4 V is extremely low. In fact, 10,8 V is the minimum / critical voltage for a lead-acid 6 cell battery. If held for a longer period of time with a voltage below it, the battery will be damaged. Special treatment / desulfurisation might help if the battery was in good health before, but I'd take it to a battery specialized shop to test it on a load tester (not the 'fancy' electronic one) to check the health.