Technical No oil pressure after rebuild of 500 giardiniera engine.

[Duffys Dad]

Hi
I'm hoping the collective brain can help.
I have rebuild a 500 Giardiniera engine and it starts but there is no oil pressure.
Any ideas on why this might be would be appreciated.
There is no sign of any oil at all at the oil pressure valve.
Is it possible there is some sort of air lock preventing oil getting through. is it necessary to put oil into the system first some how?

I have removed the timing chain casing again to check the oil pump and the oil pressure release valve. Pump looks like it is working OK.
There was plenty of oil in the timing chain casing, but alarmingly no sign of oil in centrifugal the oil filter. I'm wandering if the pressure release valve is just letting the oil back into this area and not pushing through.
I'm trying to figure out the oil flow.
From the pump it seems to go to the pressure release valve and then into the end of the Camshaft. Then i believe it goes through the camshaft bearing and Im assuming after that it goes to the crank shaft? bearings, but where does it go after that?

Hope you can help with some ideas and things to try, preferably without removing and stripping the engine again.

Many thanks.

 

[portland_bill]

I have no specific knowledge of this engine, but basic principles do apply.
Often pumps will not pick up oil unless primed (already full). Some are happy to suck oil up from empty. Different engines require different techniques to achieve this. The pump may require packing with grease, or a heavy sticky oil. Vaseline is often used, but ordinary grease will also work. Some can be filled from an oil can through the pressure relief valve, oil pressure switch, or other oil gallery.

First question would be, is the pump sucking and therefore blowing, but the oil is then getting 'lost' back to the sump. A stuck open relief valve can cause this, as will leaking joints anywhere after the pump. A leaking joint before the pump, will allow it to suck air instead of oil. Every joint, whether O-ring or gasket needs to be checked.

Good luck. Something small causing a big headache.

 

[the hobbler]

I have no specific knowledge of this engine, but basic principles do apply.
Often pumps will not pick up oil unless primed (already full). Some are happy to suck oil up from empty. Different engines require different techniques to achieve this. The pump may require packing with grease, or a heavy sticky oil. Vaseline is often used, but ordinary grease will also work. Some can be filled from an oil can through the pressure relief valve, oil pressure switch, or other oil gallery.

First question would be, is the pump sucking and therefore blowing, but the oil is then getting 'lost' back to the sump. A stuck open relief valve can cause this, as will leaking joints anywhere after the pump. A leaking joint before the pump, will allow it to suck air instead of oil. Every joint, whether O-ring or gasket needs to be checked.

Good luck. Something small causing a big headache.

Which way round did you fit the spacer that goes up against the crankshaft on the TIMING-CHAIN end of the crank? When you build up the timing-chain end of the crankshaft. you first of all fit a spacer/washer that is flat on one side and cut-away/ridged on the other----you MUST fit the cut-away/ridged side FACING the crankshaft, with the flat side facing the TIMING-CHAIN. This is followed by the 'piston-ring' seal and it's holder, then the timing-chain sprocket. Fitting this washer the wrong way round is the normal reason for lack of oil-pressure with both the 120 engine (Giardy)and also the 110 engine (saloon). Also, did you fill the oil-pump with vaseline (I NEVER use grease---it does mix in with the oil very well)--priming the pump this way gives it something to suck against upon initial start-up.

 

[Duffys Dad]

Thanks for this! That makes sense to me I will have a look and check this out. I thought i might have forgotten the spring behind the pressure release valve, but what you say is another very likely option. Can I access this all from timing chain side of the crank and avoid stripping the engine? The Tip to prime the pump is another good one so thanks both for that one.

 

[the hobbler]

Which way round did you fit the spacer that goes up against the crankshaft on the TIMING-CHAIN end of the crank? When you build up the timing-chain end of the crankshaft. you first of all fit a spacer/washer that is flat on one side and cut-away/ridged on the other----you MUST fit the cut-away/ridged side FACING the crankshaft, with the flat side facing the TIMING-CHAIN. This is followed by the 'piston-ring' seal and it's holder, then the timing-chain sprocket. Fitting this washer the wrong way round is the normal reason for lack of oil-pressure with both the 120 engine (Giardy)and also the 110 engine (saloon). Also, did you fill the oil-pump with vaseline (I NEVER use grease---it does mix in with the oil very well)--priming the pump this way gives it something to suck against upon initial start-up.

Thanks for this! That makes sense to me I will have a look and check this out. I thought i might have forgotten the spring behind the pressure release valve, but what you say is another very likely option. Can I access this all from timing chain side of the crank and avoid stripping the engine? The Tip to prime the pump is another good one so thanks both for that one.

Yes, you can get at the washer/spacer without taking the engine out, but you will have to remove the rear cross-member as the crank-pulley and timing-chain cover will need to be removed. You will also need to lock the flywheel in order to undo the crankshaft nut (or, use an impact-drill!). Then, with the t/c-cover off, and the crank-sprocket removed, you will be able to remove the "piston-ring-seal" and it's holder, and finally check the thrust-washer/spacer for correct orientation

 

[Duffys Dad]

Yes, you can get at the washer/spacer without taking the engine out, but you will have to remove the rear cross-member as the crank-pulley and timing-chain cover will need to be removed. You will also need to lock the flywheel in order to undo the crankshaft nut (or, use an impact-drill!). Then, with the t/c-cover off, and the crank-sprocket removed, you will be able to remove the "piston-ring-seal" and it's holder, and finally check the thrust-washer/spacer for correct orientation

Brilliant. Thanks I have had a look and you are spot on. The spacer washer is the wrong way round. Thanks so much for your help!!

 

[the hobbler]

Brilliant. Thanks I have had a look and you are spot on. The spacer washer is the wrong way round. Thanks so much for your help!!

Glad to have been of help. You are not the 1st person to make that mistake, and I doubt if you will be the last!