Panda Thermostat - what brand?

[The Panda Nut]

Just did Daffo's thermostat yesterday. Normal service resumed but still a bit more air to purge after a few miles running. The old stat looked fully closed but the car was not getting to temp if the temp gauge to be believed. I fitted Original Birth brad from shop4 parts at £23. I am wondering if the sender was the faulty item. Its gone off to work again tonight so I will see if the catch can still generates the same volume of water. I removed the battery tray and a lot of wiring to be able to get at the thermostat. The slowest bit was getting rid of the one shot hose clips and then finding I had not got the ideal size of jubilee clips. All in about an hour and then another hour purging air! AT least the heater seems hotter so a result. Fiat original stat was only another 25p but I didnt notice that until I had ordered.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just did Daffo's thermostat yesterday. Normal service resumed but still a bit more air to purge after a few miles running. The old stat looked fully closed but the car was not getting to temp if the temp gauge to be believed. I fitted Original Birth brad from shop4 parts at £23. I am wondering if the sender was the faulty item. Its gone off to work again tonight so I will see if the catch can still generates the same volume of water. I removed the battery tray and a lot of wiring to be able to get at the thermostat. The slowest bit was getting rid of the one shot hose clips and then finding I had not got the ideal size of jubilee clips. All in about an hour and then another hour purging air! AT least the heater seems hotter so a result. Fiat original stat was only another 25p but I didnt notice that until I had ordered.

The price you paid for your Thermostat had me puzzled for a minute there but then it dawned on me Daffo must have the 69hp VVT engine? I was "lucky" in that Becky has the older 60hp engine so has the simpler old thermostat: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=470. I ordered some service items, plugs etc, at the same time so was able to avail myself of their free shipping.

As you observed with your's, our thermostat was closed when removed from the engine and looked visually perfect - apart from the bit of corrosion on the outside of the pipe where the hose connects.

Regarding the bleeding out problem. I've now renewed the coolant in both the Punto and our Panda when I did their cam belts and then had to drain the coolant in the Panda again to do the thermostat - so 3 drain downs and bleed outs. On each occasion I've used that "header" pipe I made up which I showed pictures of in a couple of previous posts. Because of the "head" it creates you can bleed out pretty much all of the trapped air before even starting the engine and then, within 5 minutes or so of running (by the time the thermostat has opened) it's all bled out and ready to drive. A further top up - of about a teacup full at most - seems to be always needed whithin the first day of running and then they stabilize.

I've tackled quite a number of those original fit hose clips now and I really don't mess about with them any more, just get violent with them, throw them away, and fit a worm drive in their place. A couple of years ago I bought a big selection box of then from Lidl/Aldi and I used up the last big one doing this thermostat. Can't decide whether to buy another selection box or buy singles from my Factor/Halfords. I suspect buying singles may be an expensive way to do it but the selection box has a number of sizes I know I'll never use. Personally I find the small diameter ones more difficult to deal with?

I suspect renewing the thermostat when doing a timing belt change might be a good thing to do?

PS did your Original birth come with a gasket in the box? mine did. The genuine Fiat one does not and you have to buy the gasket separately which adds a wee bit to the price (and, when I was buying mine, S4p could supply the genuine thermostat but were out of stock on the gaskets!)

 

[jrkitching]

The old stat looked fully closed

It would.

Usually it's the internal seal that fails, allowing some coolant to leak past when the 'stat itself is fully closed. So it'll pass a boiling water test, but won't work properly in the car.

The Panda is massively overcooled for pootling about on a UK winter's day (it's designed to cope with an Italian summer, which it does admirably), so it doesn't need much of an internal leak to stop it coming properly up to temperature.

The Circoli ones are indeed rubbish quality, but the OEM ones aren't much better, judging by the number that fail. That said, the Circoli one I fitted a couple of years ago is still going strong, cost less than £8 and even came with a gasket.

At least they're cheap, and the job isn't hard.

 

[Sfrontato]

Just fitted a Febi thermostat (~£13) to my 2009 1.1 yesterday. Difference in temperature control is dramatic - the gauge needle moves up to 2/3, and now stays there whatever.

The test of the thermostat rad hose to see whether it warmed up quickly from cold was inconclusive, but given the car's age I thought I would change it anyway, as doing water pump at same time. This is consistent with jrkitching's comment - only needs a bit of coolant bypass to result in engine running cool. Previously, gauge barely rose above 1/4 when driving at 'speed' (a relative term in a 1.1 I know).

 

[varesecrazy]

Difference in temperature control is dramatic - the gauge needle moves up to 2/3, and now stays there whatever.
[/QUOTE]


2/3 HOT.. ?

Not sure if that is what I would want coming out of winter..

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Difference in temperature control is dramatic - the gauge needle moves up to 2/3, and now stays there whatever.

2/3 HOT.. ?

Not sure if that is what I would want coming out of winter.. [/QUOTE]
Troubles me a wee bit too Charlie. With the new Original Birth fitted in mine the needle sits plumb on the half way mark. I'm wondering if perhaps Sfrontato needs to do a bit more system bleeding?

 

[jrkitching]

Troubles me a wee bit too Charlie. With the new Original Birth fitted in mine the needle sits plumb on the half way mark. I'm wondering if perhaps Sfrontato needs to do a bit more system bleeding?

It concerns me too. But if the temperature reached is steady and repeatable, airlocks aren't the problem, and bleeding isn't the answer.

What's more likely is that the thermostat isn't opening at the correct temperature or (much less likely if it worked properly before) the temperature sensor is out of tolerance.

I have this dim, distant memory that there were different OEM versions of the thermostat for different markets; IIRC the UK ones are supposed to be set to open at 87 degrees.

Not sure if that is what I would want coming out of winter...

If I'm right with my opening temperature hypothesis, it'll be just the same in summer.

The way to test this is to fit a different brand and see if it makes a difference; the Circoli one is still only just over £10 at Euro, so it won't break the bank.

 

[varesecrazy]

Yes.. there should be different opening temperatures available

The Scandinavians want a better Heater supply then the Egyptians

Lockdown has made me realise what odd..and challenging use some cars are subjected to

If it only ever does 3 mile trips.. you are going to struggle with condensation build.up

 

[DaveMcT]

I would just leave it with the stat you have - better heat in cold weather and less sludge from short runs. If it struggles to stay cool in hot summer traffic, then change it for a cooler stat but it will almost certainly be just fine.

These engines cannot tolerate any loss of coolant so a stat that runs cooler or hotter would make no difference. Worry about coolant levels. No need to worry about the thermostat.

 

[varesecrazy]

These engines cannot tolerate any loss of coolant so a stat that runs cooler or hotte

r would make no difference. I would just leave it with the stat you have - better heat in cold weather and less sludge from short runs. If it struggles to stay cool in hot summer traffic, then change it for a cooler stat but it will almost certainly be just fine.

I think I know what you are trying to say..

 

[DaveMcT]

Looks like I improved my wording after your quote.

 

[Sfrontato]

Ha ha! Thanks for the concern, but my mistake - the needle goes to half way when up to temp - I can see the thicker mark there now the needle is not on it. i'm in the UK btw. I had also kind of ignored everything past what I now realise is actually the 2/3 marker - that would be a castastrophic event if the needle ever went there?

I fitted a Febi 10897 thermostat, a replacement for Fiat #7589135 , which is an 87oC.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I have noticed the same thing, but not just car parts, tools, appliances, computers, paint, since the lockdown, almost everything has had stock issues... will it ever recover, probably, but with price increases especially if it is coming from outside the uk.

This is leaving the EU. Nothing more nothing less. Best get used to it. My recent purchase of a pair of wellingtons and the conversation with that supplier suggested it will be catastrophic if its not sorted out. Hauliers will not come here unless FULLY loaded as the UK now taxes them and this means stop start supply for many things. Standard £60 on every container has also been added and I am not sure why. EU are being difficult over paperwork as well. Lets hope our glorious badly attired leader gets his ********* act together and gets the state oiling some wheels sooner rather than later. Maybe my panic purchases of service items was not so daft after all. I have two years of stock for 3 cars on the shelf. I am warming up to avoiding everything possible from any EU source should there be an alternative but Im not sure of its the EU or the UK that is the cause of the ills.

 

[The Panda Nut]

PS did your Original birth come with a gasket in the box? mine did. The genuine Fiat one does not and you have to buy the gasket separately which adds a wee bit to the price (and, when I was buying mine, S4p could supply the genuine thermostat but were out of stock on the gaskets!)[/QUOTE]

Yes you are right its the 69HP engine and the thermostat is the same as the 500. Not listed under Panda. It swallowed a pint of coolant after a 20 mile run which was a bit scary but I think has no more air now.

The stat is sealed with its own rubber seal which must be an O ring. I didn't check but just nipped it up about 6lb/ft and its sealed nicely. I did add a smear of red Hermetite just to be on the safe side. I will have a look for your header pipe thingy. That's a champion idea and I will copy it. I am going to have to get some new hose clamps as mine were old ones and I am not happy they are not distorting the hoses, so another drain down is in the offing.

 

[chris3234]

This is leaving the EU. Nothing more nothing less. Best get used to it. My recent purchase of a pair of wellingtons and the conversation with that supplier suggested it will be catastrophic if its not sorted out. Hauliers will not come here unless FULLY loaded as the UK now taxes them and this means stop start supply for many things. Standard £60 on every container has also been added and I am not sure why. EU are being difficult over paperwork as well. Lets hope our glorious badly attired leader gets his ********* act together and gets the state oiling some wheels sooner rather than later. Maybe my panic purchases of service items was not so daft after all. I have two years of stock for 3 cars on the shelf. I am warming up to avoiding everything possible from any EU source should there be an alternative but Im not sure of its the EU or the UK that is the cause of the ills.

I think covid is just as much to blame as brexit with regardless to shortages of parts and items
Perhaps if we had one without the other it wouldn't be half as bad

 

[koalar]

I think covid is just as much to blame as brexit with regardless to shortages of parts and items
Perhaps if we had one without the other it wouldn't be half as bad

I tried to import something through Ireland

The paperwork was impossible.

one website splits off sends you to others. You either go round in circles or at a dead end

Some pages contradict previous pages.

might have been sorted by now. But at the time I looked it was a real mess. I am no dummy when it comes to paperwork.

In the end I gave up and I am only trying to move one part. Nearly forgot if you could sort out the forms and payed for it. When it gets delivered some of the duty has to be paid direct to the courier in cash.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Here is hoping. Maybe we can see one sorted in the not too distant future.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I did add a smear of red Hermetite just to be on the safe side. I will have a look for your header pipe thingy. That's a champion idea and I will copy it.

Names like Hermetite and Hylomar are names I'd almost forgotten - Fond memories!

To save you searching for it here's the post I did on refilling and bleeding Becky's cooling system, Hope it's useful: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/459967-beckys-timing-belt-all-done.html?459967=#post4338985

 

[DaveMcT]

Back in 2005, I bought a syringe type pack of Loctite 518 anaerobic sealant. Not cheap but it's only just running out. It's fantastic stuff and can be used as a gasket replacer, gasket glue and even to support for O-ring joints. Ive never bought any of the old types ever again.

The original Hylomar was developed by Rolls Royce I believe used on WW2 Merlins. They now have a full range including the anaerobic gasket replacers.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The original Hylomar was developed by Rolls Royce I believe used on WW2 Merlins.

Same "story" I heard. Good stuff though, I used to use it a lot. In fact, I've just had a look in my sealants box and guess what?



I don't know how old the oldest one is. In fact I probably should throw the two nearly empty tubes in the bin - must remember I've got that nearly full tube though, I could have used it on the thermostat gasket, possibly better than the silicone sealant I actually used.

Whilst we are talking about this sort of stuff, If you've never tried this stuff:



Try it. Best epoxy resin glue I've ever used! I haven't quite finished the previous pack and already I've bought this one so I don't run out when needed.