General Panda cuts out - won't re-start

[mikeyboy]

Hi guys,

I have a pretty annoying prob with my 1990 H-reg 999cc 2WD Panda. I'm at a loss as to understand it, so I hope someone here can help!

After driving about 10 miles the engine starts running very rough and eventually cuts out and won't re-start. After about 5-10 mins it will re-start and then run perfectly. The AA, a Fiat dealer, and an independent garage have all looked at the car and can't find any fault. It is made more difficult by the fact that the problem is so intermittent - some days it runs perfectly.

The car has had new sparks, dizzy cap, rotor arm, and the fuel mixture is fine. The problem is more likely to happen on cold damp days, but only when the car is fully up to working temperature (and cold starting is NEVER a problem).

I've read Simo's similar thread, but I'm not sure we have the same problem. Any ideas, please?!

 

[steveyensen]

When you say the car runs perfectly, do you mean that the problem doesn't re-occur?

Second question: how long has this been happening?

Third question: do you get any spark at all when the problem occurs?


Steve - [the barking

is having a rest]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Fiat Panda! (with apologies to the Queen of the Blues)

 

[polecat]

Check to see if you get a spark during that time when it won't start. You may have a small crack or a dry joint in the coil.

Got more additives than fuel in my tank.

 

[mikeyboy]

Thanks for replying, guys.

Yep, after the initial problem it doesn't seem to re-occur during the same journey, although this might be due to the distance I drive (30 miles) not giving the problem a chance to re-occur.

I'm pretty sure I'm getting a spark when the problem starts occuring, cuz although the engine starts to run REALLY rough, it does at least run (although hills are a problem, and if I stop at a junction or something then it will cut out as soon as I dip the clutch). Eventually though the car will stop. The strange thing is, the longer I continue to push on with a sick sounding engine, the longer I have to wait for the engine to re-start...If I pull over and stop and soon as she runs badly, then I only have to wait a couple of minutes before the engine is OK again.

BTW, any under-bonnet testing at the time of breakdown is hampered by the fact that it takes two people to open the bonnet: one to hold the release lever in the footwell, and another to pop the bonnet catch [!] Good old Italian build quality!

The problem reared its head in winter 2 years ago, but then disappeared for two years and is now back. This year, I've had the problem for about the last 3 weeks. During the daily commute, WHEN the problem will occur is almost so predictable that I can get into the N/S lane ready to pull onto the hard shoulder! I have wondered if the problem is due to the actual distance involved (about 10 miles) but can't see why that should be the case. Interestingly, two years ago, the car would also come to a stop after approx 10 miles...

I'm assuming it's more likely to be an ignition problem, as opposed to a fuel delivery issue, but someone at work has hazarded a guess that it might be a fuel pump pressure problem. I'm sceptical - what do you guys think?

 

[custard]

have you looked to see if the problem happens at the same temperature?just thinking it may be when a cold start device(dont know the panda engine) stops working and this is causing/masking the problemB)

The Fiat Cinquecento
Fun While It Runs

 

[polecat]

mmmm.. OK.

Nasty problem, but fact that it is predictable to some degree may help. First, if it always stops in same place is there a tasty pink panda parked nearby?

Basic checks to carry out: Sorry if you know this already but it always helps me if I start from beginning.

1. Check oil. Level - low/high, colour - dirty/brown/water/gritty/metal particles, etc.

2. Check water. Same as above but give it a smell, any bad or funny smells?

3. Pull a couple of spark plugs, check colour/condition to see if mix is running hot/lean or oily, green gunge, etc.

4. Any unusual amounts of smoke and/or fluids from exhaust. Colour of smoke.

5. Visual check of engine. Any signs of fresh oil/water/soot, especially around gaskets and seals.

Note condition of above and let us know if you are not sure about anything.

Next:
Electrics are always a good place to start, a poor spark will cause the engine to run rough. As things warm up they move around a bit and a loose connection could cause problems. I still think it would be a good idea to check what kind of spark you are getting when the problem occurs. Check and clean leads, also see if they are tight up against something that could expand and pull them when hot.

Fuel. You may have some contamination, (water, oil, solids), in the tank or lines that works its way along to the business end after a certain time. Similarly you may be sucking air into the fuel system somewhere.

Air. Check the air filter box for water or too much oil that could wick up and obstruct air flow.

Nasty bits. Inlet manifold or head gasket faults that show up when engine warms up. Results of above checks would help here.

Let us know how you get on.

Got more additives than fuel in my tank.

 

[mikeyboy]

Here goes...

Oil: dark brown colour, at high mark on dipstick, no obvious probs.

Water: Looks and smells normal, no oil slicks floating on top, or petroly smells

Plugs: Look in perfect condition (as did the old ones when I replaced them approx 2k miles ago).

No smoke from exhaust,apart from the usual amount of steam for a few hundred yards when starting on cold mornings.

Visual check shows nothing obvious (but I'd be unlikely to spot anything anyway). Air box is clean and filter replaced 2k miles ago. I've tighten the fuel hose connections that I can find (hoses are in good condition). A fuel filter is fitted just before the pump, so should stop any sediment.

I hope I can check the spark thing when the car breaks down, but getting the bonnet open by myself is gonna be a problem!

I knew a girl once who had the EXACT same problem with her Panda, but never solved it either. Maybe the problem is model specific???

 

[polecat]

Ok, unfortunately I never got under the bonnet of the 'E' reg Panda 999 fire my wife had for a while, so I'm not an expert on them.

From what you have said I don't think your problem is terminal, just bloody annoying. I'll have another think.

steveyensen our panda expert is away for a couple of days after today but you may get some ideas from some of our other members.

Good Luck

Got more additives than fuel in my tank.

 

[John H]

As your problem has just resumed since the weather has cooled down a bit you're probably suffering from carburettor icing.

There should be a piece of alloy tubing about 50 to 60 mm in diameter, and somewhere around 110 mm long, running from the top of the exhaust manifold straight up to the base of the airfilter box at the front of the car. It gets left off when the filter is changed, and causes no trouble at all in the summer months.

If that pipe is OK, check inside the airbox for a thermostatic diverter arrangement which should be using the hot air air from that alloy pipe in cold weather. It can fail in its "summer" position.

Older 903 Pandas have a manual adjustment for "summer/winter" inlet air temp settings.

HTH

John H

If the "preloved" place had been working, you would have had this information days ago...[!][V]

 

[polecat]

lol John H i'm all bruised with kicking myself.

Got more additives than fuel in my tank.

 

[mikeyboy]

Thanks John, I'll check this first chance I get (prob Christmas Day!). From memory, the tubing is in place (it looks like a shiny foil version of some vacuum cleaner hose), but I'll check the setting in the airbox.

Have a good Christmas chaps, and thanks for all your help!

BTW John, I didn't realise anyone had spotted my appeal for help on "Preloved"[V]

 

[John H]

Agreed the tubing is a bit concertina like.

The airbox "setting" is supposed to be thermostatic, I.E. automatically changing to correct air feed depending on how hot or cold it is inside the airbox, on the FIRE engined versions.

It's manual adjustment on the older 903s.


Regarding "Preloved", I do add the odd comment, but a lot of the time it is broken.
Then there's the business with the replies which get trapped for whatever reason, and appear days later - if at all....

Not the best FIAT friendly place - but we know which is, don't we

 

[steveyensen]

Me? A Panda expert?

I know "Preloved" very well. There's a thread on there about my timing belt snapping!

Regarding the tubing - it's quite fragile so a visual inspection may not reveal much and it's leaking air ... removing the air filter housing, removing it and giving it a careful flex may show cracks ...

Steve - [the barking

is having a rest]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Fiat Panda! (with apologies to the Queen of the Blues)

 

[go2helenback]

Hello all-

I'm a newbie, hope you don't mind me popping in without proper introduction, but I might be able to help on this one:

I have a 1991 Panda 999cc Super that had this same problem last winter. I went thru everything- even stripped and rebuilt the carb to no avail- I learned a lot but still no joy! Worked my way down a long list of suspects til I discovered it was the condenser. Put a new one on with new points and it's been fine ever since.

It could be the culprit on yours, I hope to have been some help.

Helen


Cinq Turbo and Panda Super

 

[panda_owner]

sorry for this stupid question:
I have very similar problem with my panda 750, but I don't know what condenser is. please help.

 

[bumcheeks]

the condenser (or capacitor) is a small Cylindrical device about an inch long and half an inch think, located on the distributor, there's a green lead connected to it.
they cost about £13 from a fiat dealer

 

[panda_owner]

thanx bumcheeks, I will look into that.

 

[smokeme]

Back to original topic. Have you checked/replaced the ignition module? Mine seems to go crazy once it warms up and the car won´t have power, i checked by warming it up with a portable heater and the problem show up then i traced it to the module.

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If you have any questions don´t be afraid, ask away. I´ll be glad to help.