Technical Panda 100hp Gearbox - DIY Replacement?

[The Hiphopotamus]

Hi all,

newbie here so whilst I can see this is a much-covered topic, I couldn't find much about doing the replacement myself. If there's an existing thread then let me know!

I've just bought a Panda 100hp with the classic 3rd gear synchro problem - it's pretty difficult to get it into 3rd so I think the box needs to be replaced, rather than just doing a repair. I'll replace the gearbox oil as well to see if there's any improvement but I doubt it.

I've found a few places to source a box from out here (I'm based in Germany) and I'd prefer to replace the box myself. I'm looking for a guide on the box replacement or advice from anyone who's done it themselves. I've got a bit of experience, though a gearbox swap isn't something I've done before!

Thanks in advence

 

[Decronium]

Start here



Then here



Finally here

 

[koalar]

Are you sure it's not the selector cables, it's a more common fault

Does it fail with the engine off

Is there any crunching noise

It it fail engine off, get someone to try and select 3rd in the car, and then push the lever on top of the box, if it goes in easy from the top of the gearbox I'd suspect the cables

Anyhow gearbox removal




Pretty much says it all

I use a plank across the wings and rope

I split the long drive shaft at the CV joint

After removing the gearbox mount, I lower the engine a bit, the downwards slope helps, plus it gives a bit more room, you need to spread the load under the sump with some wood

You need to lift the car just enough to get the gearbox under, but no more

Easier with help

If I am on my own I lift the gearbox up a rope and kick my toolbox underneath, tie the rope off and usually within an inch or two

Might as well do the clutch as well if you need to go this far

Official instructions link below

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

 

[The Hiphopotamus]

Thanks for the replies! I had seen the video from the Bearded Wonder, it's helpful.

@koalar I haven't checked with the engine off yet but I will later, but yes there is a lot of crunching / grinding. I have to engage 3rd extremely carefully and firmly. So would you say that is the synchro or the cable?

 

[koalar]

Crunching gearbox or clutch

Not cables

Does reverse select without crunching noises, with the wheels stationary, engine on

 

[Decronium]

It's likely the synchro ring (Clutch is hydraulic). I haven't found a supplier in the UK, maybe you will have more luck in Germany?

Good boxes will be harder and harder to find so a rebuild is looking more plausible these days.

 

[The Hiphopotamus]

Well, I have found reconditioned boxes with a 2 year guarantee for c. €600 which I'd be a bit more comfortable with than doing a full rebuild myself....

The repair kit I have found is c.€200-€300, and this company do the synchro ring on its own - https://augustin-group.de/ but they need the part number. Do you happen to know it?

Follow up question - IF I rebuild the box, is it better with a full kit like this or just the synchro ring for 3rd?

 

[The Hiphopotamus]

Crunching gearbox or clutch

Not cables

Does reverse select without crunching noises, with the wheels stationary, engine on

Yup, no problem at all with reverse

 

[A3jeroen]

LHD clutch is cable operated.

gr J

 

[koalar]

Reverse fine not the clutch

Gearbox

Not an easy fix

Not taken the 6 speed apart

The 5 speed is not easy without a hydraulic press and proper bearing puller, the cheap claw types will not work, work bench with vice and soft jaws, pretty sure without a decent impact wrench the rear plate and nuts will be a pain in the bum

There some special tools to push the parts back to the correctly locations

Here's the instructions

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

 

[koalar]

I be tempted to just put one in from a 500 1.4

Gear ratios are the same and should be easier to find

 

[The Hiphopotamus]

I was actually just looking for the number/ code which is C514.6 or C514 M6, the one from the 500 is the same, right?

Out of interest, how much are they back in the UK? In general it's about €6-800 here, with at least a year of guarantee

 

[koalar]

I fitted a 1.2 500 into a 1.2 panda without any problems

I can't see a problem put the 500 1.4 sport into the 100HP

They both have the same part number

I payed £60 for mine low milage, local pickup fitted a new input bearing and new seals, clutch was a £40 transmech which is a rebadged blueprint with a AP pressure plate, if I was to do it again I would choose a different clutch, worked fine but it's very little movement from full slip to full grip

Annoyingly the oil is quite expensive over £5 a liter from memory

 

[irc]

I be tempted to just put one in from a 500 1.4

Gear ratios are the same and should be easier to find

My "old dog" 100hp has one from a 1.4 sport. Got it from Club500 to replace one with... knackered 3rd gear. Plenty of swarf in the oil too, so beyond my gearbox repair skills.

I lucked into one that had been fairly recently refurbished and it has been trouble-free for 4+ years. It looked (and fitted) identical to the old gearbox, and appears to drive the same (but with a usable 3rd gear)

The previous owner of mine drove it like her a*** was on fire, and I suspect she was pretty hard on 3rd gear, but otherwise she had it maintained pretty well. Sadly, the paint lets it down, and as it's fairly high miles, it's never likely to be worth a respray. Still great fun, though, and you can't see the lacquer peel from the driver's seat.

 

[The Hiphopotamus]

There's absolutely loads of boxes for sale in Italy, and I hadn't even thought about getting one shipped from there They're much more reasonably priced as well (about €300)

A local garage (also Italian) will swap the box for €4-500 which I think is alright really.

@koalar You've been really helpful - thanks vcery much. I'd get it done myself if the price was much higher to get the garage to do it

 

[DaveMcT]

If you are swapping the gearbox, get a new clutch and replace the crankshaft rear seal. It's more work but clutches are consumable items and oil leak from the engine seal will ruin the clutch. Make ABSOLUTELY sure they fit the correct clutch. My Multijet had a 1.4 petrol clutch which was falling apart. I don't know if a 1.2 clutch will fit but I'd not be surprised if it does.

I also had a leak from the gearbox front seal but that should be new with a new gearbox. If you are fitting a used gearbox, get a new front seal fitted. It's fiddly but doable and far better than having to repeat the work later.

 

[A3jeroen]

The previous owner of mine drove it like her a*** was on fire,

Is there any other way to drive them?

gr J