I agree that, in the video, I don't hear any particular indication of a miss fire. However I'd really enjoy having a session on it with my stethoscope and listening tube to track down exactly where that noise is coming from.
Technical Noise after timing belt and aux belt
- Thread starter Luisc
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Technical Noise after timing belt and aux belt
Luisc
Member
I think is from the Timing belt , is a common issue with gates and tjets now, i searched a bit from the Alfa fóruns with the mito tb same engine , and people are having issues with the gates kit , the solution was changing tensioner belt and water Pump from Fiat oem.
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
and our Panda. I shall supply Fiat parts next time. S o d the cost.
Luisc
Member
Also worth mention they talk they changed the Timing pulley
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
Mine was a gates kit. Its similar noise to yours, and spoils what was a stunning smooth quiet engine. My strong suspicion is its the Gates branded water pumps. They are not in fact made by gates but just labelled as such. I had the tensioner changed to a Fiat part but its still horrid.
Luisc
Member
Same thought i think is the water Pump indeed my previous was original Fiat and was super smooth
The Panda Nut
Nutty about Pandas Infected by Panda virus and OPD
same here.
If a phonic wheel relearn is needed the check engine light will illuminate.
I have changed the belt tensioner for genuine fiat and still the same noise so either the belt or water pump. That will be 3rd time I have tensioned the belt so am just going to live with it. Maybe in the summer next year I will get a genuine belt and try that as the cold is coming now.
I did check the water pump with a stethoscope and didn't hear any bad noises. Although maybe the way the pulley meshes with the belt might not be good.
I have re-timed the engine so many times I think I can do a belt swap in under an hour now!
I did check the water pump with a stethoscope and didn't hear any bad noises. Although maybe the way the pulley meshes with the belt might not be good.
I have re-timed the engine so many times I think I can do a belt swap in under an hour now!
Luisc
Member
Fiat stuffs ahaha , i think i Will hold mine for a bit since it seems to not mess with the engine and is a bit expensive , maybe Will Settle a bit . HopefullyI have changed the belt tensioner for genuine fiat and still the same noise so either the belt or water pump. That will be 3rd time I have tensioned the belt so am just going to live with it. Maybe in the summer next year I will get a genuine belt and try that as the cold is coming now.
I did check the water pump with a stethoscope and didn't hear any bad noises. Although maybe the way the pulley meshes with the belt might not be good.
I have re-timed the engine so many times I think I can do a belt swap in under an hour now!
I've written about this in several threads on the forum. My 1.2 60hp Panda has a similar noise, although considerably less in volume. When I did mine, about 5 years ago - so it's due a belt change now - I removed a genuine Fiat belt and fitted a complete Gates kit. (my preferred brand). It was making the noise before and continued to make a very similar noise after the Gates belt was fitted. I spent quite a bit of time running the engine with the belt covers off while I explored with my stethoscope and listening tube. The stethoscope - which works by touching the end of it's probe to metal parts of the engine and listening for conducted noises - revealed nothing. However the listening tube - which works by hovering the open end of the tube over the suspect areas - quite quickly allowed me to narrow the source of the noise to the area around the cam pulley. Very carefully moving the open end of the tube around (you don't want it to snag on moving parts) it quickly became obvious that the noise was being generated where the belt's teeth were feeding into mesh with the pulley's teeth. I guess it's acting a bit like a siren? Anyway, it's pretty much the same now, some 5 years later, as it was on the day I fitted it - possibly just a little quieter, but not much. When I change it I'll make a point of trying a different make and see if it makes any difference. I'll probably try a Dayco as they seem to claim they concentrate on noise reduction and have a very obviously different tooth material: https://www.dayco.com/en/product/timing-belts/I have changed the belt tensioner for genuine fiat and still the same noise so either the belt or water pump. That will be 3rd time I have tensioned the belt so am just going to live with it. Maybe in the summer next year I will get a genuine belt and try that as the cold is coming now.
I did check the water pump with a stethoscope and didn't hear any bad noises. Although maybe the way the pulley meshes with the belt might not be good.
I have re-timed the engine so many times I think I can do a belt swap in under an hour now!
Luisc
Member
Yes , but since it does not mess with the engine is good ,i think dayco Manufactures for Fiat so could be a good bet , give us a update when you Change , could help some members
i Will post any updates if i have , if calms down or notThats exactly how my engine sounds on idle from the engine bay. So yeah i think its just how TJETs sound and nothing to worry about.
Ah what a relief, my concerns are now allayed! Thank you for posting this stuff.
Experienced the exact same with my A500 2010 (diy'ed last weekend) - new Gates Powergrip belt, tensioner and water pump. Was careful to tension correctly and locked the top and bottom beforehand- all running as it should this week passed (Daily whip) but noticed this 'whirring' when idling.
Thought it was the auxilliary belt tensioner on the way out, but afer changing that last night the sympton still persists! Guess I'll have to get used to it for the next 5 years.... Definitely going to try a different kit, then.
...Has anyone yet changed from Gates and seen the whirring disappear?! Big love!
Experienced the exact same with my A500 2010 (diy'ed last weekend) - new Gates Powergrip belt, tensioner and water pump. Was careful to tension correctly and locked the top and bottom beforehand- all running as it should this week passed (Daily whip) but noticed this 'whirring' when idling.
Thought it was the auxilliary belt tensioner on the way out, but afer changing that last night the sympton still persists! Guess I'll have to get used to it for the next 5 years.... Definitely going to try a different kit, then.
...Has anyone yet changed from Gates and seen the whirring disappear?! Big love!
When I fitted the new belt, water pump and idler, I was confident that would "cure" this noise, but it didn't. The noise was almost exactly the same but possibly very slightly quieter. After fitting the new belt I was running the engine with the belt guard off - I usually do this whenever I'm fitting a cam belt so I can be sure the new belt is "happy" and properly tensioned before fitting the belt guard. This meant the the aux belt (fan belt) was not fitted so I knew the noise was not due to the aux belt, alternator or aux belt idler. I immediately suspected I had a defective new water pump or idler so tried my listening stick and listening tube on them, but no, they were running super quiet! That was when I carefully went round the whole assembly with the stick and tube and found the noise was coming from the belt itself. Living in a big city, as I do, and taking public transport and walking a lot, gives me the chance to listen to other vehicles which use this engine and it seems some make the noise and some don't. I'd say roughly a third of them make the noise, but that's an unscientific sample. - just what I've noticed when out and about.
Regarding your last sentence, "has anyone yet changed from a Gates?" I haven't yet, mainly because my main source sells Gates belts and gives me a good discount. However I do intend to buy a Dayco next time I do this one if we still have the car. Maybe worth noting that the belt I removed was the original FIAT belt which had the teeth with the wee slit along the peak of the teeth. The gates belts have a more rounded profile without this slit. I queried this with Gates themselves and they replied it was all about copyright on the tooth shape and makes no difference to the belt in service as the force is transmitted through the base of the tooth where it merges with the main run of the belt, not the tooth itself. I'd wondered if the tooth shape made a difference to the noise but it would seem not and, in practice this would seem to be true as my noise is the same both before and after the belt was changed. True to say though that although very similar the noise is just very slightly different with the new belt fitted so maybe the tooth shape does make a slight difference? I still find it strange that some make the noise and others don't.
When we bought the car I mentioned to the sales person that I suspected it needed either a water pump or idler in an attempt to drive the price down a little - I was being a bit "cheeky" as I'd been watching this car for a number of weeks and stepped in when they knocked it down in price. His reply was that "they all do it" Which isn't true, and offered to let me listen to a Ford Ka which was in the workshop for a service as it sounded the same (the Ka used the same engine) Unfortunately when we went through the car was up on a ramp with the sump plug pulled to drain the oil so I didn't press him on it. I've also talked to people I know in the trade, particularly Kenny at our local Fiat indy, who all say, "Yes, some do it and others don't" Non of them could say what causes it though and all agreed it sounds like a bearing noise.
So, after all that, I'm very happy that it's just a characteristic of this engine but I'm mystified and frustrated as to why some do it and others don't. I wonder if the next one will be the same - We'll very likely be replacing Becky with one of the last of the £30 road tax Pandas if/when we have to.
Note. Some may know I've been expressing interest in the Dacia Spring as a possible replacement and, although not convinced about having an electric car as our main transport yet, the Spring would be ideal for Mrs J buzzing around the town and out to our boys south of the city. I've discovered what might be a bit of a hitch in that plan though, not to do with the car but the charger installation at home. We are lucky enough to have off road parking which makes home charging the obvious way to go - much cheaper to charge the vehicle that way but is an overnight procedure. However our house still has the original fused supply, not a circuit breaker anywhere. I'd been told by the dealer that installing a home charger for the vehicle would likely cost somewhere between £800 and £1,000 but a friend, who has looked into it in more depth than me, laughed at this and said that would be unlikely given the age of my house wiring and to expect it to cost considerably more. I'm going to inquire of my electricity supplier, who seems to do the installation? to get a better idea of likely costs, but another Panda makes a lot of sense at this time.
Blackie27
Member
Thank goodness I am not the only one that has encountered this problem. I finished changing the water pump and timing belt yesterday and when I fired the car up, I though I had mucked the job up. I used Quinton Hazel Timing belt and water pump as assumed this was a good brand. I will be going on a short run to see if the noise changes or settles, then take it from there.
Quinton Hazel? now there's a name from my past. Haven't really seen any of their products around here for many years. Used to be reasonable "middle of the road" products but I never liked their clutch kits which seemed to feel "funny" when first fitted and took a long time to bed down, the customers complained. I think they were bought out by someone else some time ago - several years - don't know if they're just a "brand" now.
Blackie27
Member
Hi Pluggit Auld Jock.
Thanks for the heads up in regards to QH. I have now put them on my "Only if I must" list. I was not sure about their quality. I have narrowed the noise down to the water pump, which was theirs also. As for clutch kits I tend to by "Remco". I recently changed one in a Citroen C2 , and there was no issues at all. Sweet as a nut as they say.
Many thanks again for the heads up.
For us older folk the situation with these "big brand names" can be very confusing. I can't really comment on present day QH as I've not bought anything of theirs in many years. I mentioned clutches in my post and one of the biggest names used to be Borg and Beck. You could pretty much guarantee bullet proof quality buying one of theirs. Now a days they seem to be just a brand name? I believe owned by First Line - see Wikipedia, but I don't know if they are the same manufacturer or being made somewhere unknown and just using the brand name.Hi Pluggit Auld Jock.
Thanks for the heads up in regards to QH. I have now put them on my "Only if I must" list. I was not sure about their quality. I have narrowed the noise down to the water pump, which was theirs also. As for clutch kits I tend to by "Remco". I recently changed one in a Citroen C2 , and there was no issues at all. Sweet as a nut as they say.
Many thanks again for the heads up.
I've not heard of Remco so looked them up and they look "interesting" but seem to be largely involving themselves with electric motor vehicle parts?
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