Technical New cinquecento introduction

[LiteRye]

New cinquecento owner in need of engine id help

Hello all. Just gifted my wife a (what I believe to be) ‘66 500 with a 126 motor.

In our excitement of giving the gift we decided to take the car out for a drive to get coffee this morning and sprung a pretty big oil leak. As a result, I’m going to order a set of gaskets for the whole engine and get to work cleaning things up on the car. Any pointers on determining the size of the engine?

Also, as to the confusion of the year...the car chassis number indicates it’s a 1966 but was titled as a 1964. And to add to the confusion, the car is also littered with bits from later model 500’s as well.

 

[the hobbler]

Sadly, this situation is not unusual---people building up cars with parts from differing models. The fact that you have a '126' engine in it means that unless you remove that engine and gear-box, you are always going to have a 'bitza' car. However, the main thing is that you get it out as much as possible and use it! The average person looking at the car will only see a 'lovely little car',and not the slight oddities.
To ascertain which engine you have,you need to look at the engine number 'flat' on the rear of the engine right by the fuel-pump---if it reads '126A' you have the 594cc engine; if it reads '126A!' you have 652cc engine. If you can change DOWN the gears without having to 'double-de-clutch' you have a '126' gearbox---if you DO have to 'double-de-clutch',you have the original 500 gearbox that has been fitted with a 126 bell-housing.
In modern traffic the original 500 engine can, due to its lack of performance, be a bit of a liability at times; the bigger 126 engines being fitted to make keeping up with modern traffic flow a much more pleasant experience.

 

[LiteRye]

Thanks for the reply Hobbler!!

It appears the engine is a 594 126 with 28mm carb. And yes, thankfully it has the 126 synchro gearbox!

Now to figure out where this mess of an oil leak is

 

[JumpJet]

LiteRye

Welcome! Another one in the states. Whereabouts are you located?

Quick tip - get rid of that fuel filter between the pump and the carb. Plastic filters there can fatigue due to heat and rupture, leading to a potentially disastrous fire.

 

[the hobbler]

Your engine number reads '126A1', which would indicate that it is a 652cc version, but with a dynamo instead of the alternator that most of the 652 engines had. This in its self is not a problem, but re-inforces my belief that you have a 'bitza'. If you live in a regularly 'hot' part of America, may I suggest that when you have the engine out and stripped to cure the oil leak, you replace the 'tin' sump with a 3-1/2 litre alloy sump. If you don't want the words "Abarth" or "Giannini" on it, they are available 'blank'
There are a large number of European suppliers for the parts that you will require---feel free to contact me direct if you want a list of the main ones (who are known to be prepared to post to the US). [email protected]
As Matt (Jumpjet) mentioned, get rid of the external fuel-filter---(a) it is in a very 'unwise' position and, (b) there are 3 in the system already--tank, pump and carb. The Forum is here to help--welcome to it and feel free to pick our brains(or the few cells some of us still have rattling around!)
Neat bit of wrapping!

 

[Toshi 975]

The Weber 28IMB 5 was first used from August 1977. Looks like you may have a problem with the missing top bolt on the exhaust elbow.

 

[the hobbler]

Well spotted David. When LiteRhy has the engine out to sort out the oil leak, I would suggest that sorting that out is close to the top of the 'jobs to do' list. The problem with the exhaust elbow bolts on the 500 is that the bolts are steel, but the head is alloy and the interaction between the 2 differing metals mean that it is not unknown for the bolts to come out with the threads full of alloy. The only really lasting cure to the problem is to fit steel inserts into the holes in the cylinder head. Abarth used to supply "self-tapping steel inserts" to sort this problem out (we used to fit them from new on the 500s we tuned at Radbourne Racing). There are a couple of Companies in the UK that can supply inserts that are (a) practically identical to the Abarth supplied parts and, (b) easy to fit, as long as you are careful The companies are :--MEMFAST and, THE STEEL INSERT COMPANY. If you find that this what you need LiteRhy and are having problems sourcing the inserts on your side of 'the pond', just let me know, I have a few spare.

 

[LiteRye]

LiteRye

Welcome! Another one in the states. Whereabouts are you located?

Quick tip - get rid of that fuel filter between the pump and the carb. Plastic filters there can fatigue due to heat and rupture, leading to a potentially disastrous fire.

Thanks Jumpjet. We’re located in Maryland, just moved here from Texas.

Good to know about the fuel filter. Thanks!!

 

[LiteRye]

Your engine number reads '126A1', which would indicate that it is a 652cc version, but with a dynamo instead of the alternator that most of the 652 engines had. This in its self is not a problem, but re-inforces my belief that you have a 'bitza'. If you live in a regularly 'hot' part of America, may I suggest that when you have the engine out and stripped to cure the oil leak, you replace the 'tin' sump with a 3-1/2 litre alloy sump. If you don't want the words "Abarth" or "Giannini" on it, they are available 'blank'
There are a large number of European suppliers for the parts that you will require---feel free to contact me direct if you want a list of the main ones (who are known to be prepared to post to the US). [email protected]
As Matt (Jumpjet) mentioned, get rid of the external fuel-filter---(a) it is in a very 'unwise' position and, (b) there are 3 in the system already--tank, pump and carb. The Forum is here to help--welcome to it and feel free to pick our brains(or the few cells some of us still have rattling around!)
Neat bit of wrapping!

Is it a big deal to switch over to an alternator from a dynamo?

Mr Fiat here in the US seems to have the correct 4L oil pan

 

[the hobbler]

Go for the $163 pan, that is in fact 3-1/2 litres. As for changing to an alternator, it CAN be done by modifying the existing fan-shrouding, but from what I understand (from another Forum member)it is a bit of a bugger of a job. It is better to fit the correct fan shroud and make sure that the alternator comes with the pulley; the dynamo and alternator pulleys are slightly different. You will also have to change the regulator and wiring for the charge circuit. To be quite honest though, for many years the 500 and Mk1 (594cc) 126 engines used dynamos quite succesfully---to a degree, it depends how much motoring you are going to do. When I had a 500 as my 'every-day' car it only had a dynamo and I never had a problem, but it was being driven every day and at times, quite long trips.

 

[JumpJet]

Is it a big deal to switch over to an alternator from a dynamo?

Mr Fiat here in the US seems to have the correct 4L oil pan

I’m in the midst of the swap over myself, but I scored a very cheap, new alternator when I was living in Italy a few years back. I have yet to tackle the wiring, but the tin work mod hasn’t been much trouble at all. I’m waiting on some misc nuts and bolts, and the head at the machine shop, but I should be able to start putting it back together to see how difficult the pulley arrangement is. I know I’m short a woodruff key and the M12 shaft bolts, but think I have the rest.

I need to tackle the wiring with the motor out of the way, but need to read up on the particulars. I’m planning to document it thoroughly, so if you do make the switch, I’ll have first hand knowledge and pictures for reference.

 

[LiteRye]

Go for the $163 pan, that is in fact 3-1/2 litres. As for changing to an alternator, it CAN be done by modifying the existing fan-shrouding, but from what I understand (from another Forum member)it is a bit of a bugger of a job. It is better to fit the correct fan shroud and make sure that the alternator comes with the pulley; the dynamo and alternator pulleys are slightly different. You will also have to change the regulator and wiring for the charge circuit. To be quite honest though, for many years the 500 and Mk1 (594cc) 126 engines used dynamos quite succesfully---to a degree, it depends how much motoring you are going to do. When I had a 500 as my 'every-day' car it only had a dynamo and I never had a problem, but it was being driven every day and at times, quite long trips.

Thanks for another reply. We certainly won’t be using ours as a daily driver, but hope to use it for runs around town and an occasional cars and coffee and car show.

Is there a specific oil that seems to fare better than another in these motors?

 

[LiteRye]

I’m in the midst of the swap over myself, but I scored a very cheap, new alternator when I was living in Italy a few years back. I have yet to tackle the wiring, but the tin work mod hasn’t been much trouble at all. I’m waiting on some misc nuts and bolts, and the head at the machine shop, but I should be able to start putting it back together to see how difficult the pulley arrangement is. I know I’m short a woodruff key and the M12 shaft bolts, but think I have the rest.

I need to tackle the wiring with the motor out of the way, but need to read up on the particulars. I’m planning to document it thoroughly, so if you do make the switch, I’ll have first hand knowledge and pictures for reference.

I’m definitely interested to see how it works out for you. Keep me posted on progress!

 

[the hobbler]

For a standard motor, I would suggest a good quality 20/50

 

[lazylobster]

Welcome to the forum. You're in the right place for advice on all matters 500!

Love the picture of the car wrapped up. Have you given him / her a name yet? All 500's should have a name!

Regards
Rob

 

[LiteRye]

Welcome to the forum. You're in the right place for advice on all matters 500!

Love the picture of the car wrapped up. Have you given him / her a name yet? All 500's should have a name!

Regards
Rob

The wife hasn’t decided on a name yet. Till then we’re calling her our little “pistacchio“

 

[the hobbler]

I would leave it at that!

 

[LiteRye]

Now that I’ve gotten parts together to start cleaning up the newly renamed “Sophia” I’m going to revive this thread to log progress.

Does anyone know what color code this is? I’m told it’s the original color (verified by some worn spots in the engine bay)

 

[fiat500]

Now that I’ve gotten parts together to start cleaning up the newly renamed “Sophia” I’m going to revive this thread to log progress.

Does anyone know what color code this is? I’m told it’s the original color (verified by some worn spots in the engine bay)

Welcome to a very exclusive club; it's Blue Turchese 419.

 

[LiteRye]

Welcome to a very exclusive club; it's Blue Turchese 419.

Thanks!