Technical My impression from looking for a used 500 - 0.9 Turbo Twinair VS 1.2 FIRE engines - reliability

[jlhdasMorahd]

1. Been looking for a used 500 for a long while now (no rush to buy, I drive my brother's 1.2L 500 - very reliable car despite being very neglected TBH).

2. I have been thinking about the newish 0.9 Turbo Twinair 2 Cylinder engine as a cool "upgrade" compared to the 1.2L FIRE one (69 HP). But I call all sellers - owners of the 1.2 and the 0.9 as I don't really mind.

3. I live in a hot place and conditions here are far worse than in the UK for example. Tons of traffic, stop and go, sun is scorching hot in summer.

Here's what I found:

4 out of the about 8 owners a used 0.9 Twinair engine have engine/turbo problems - and these are the honest ones.

0 out of about 12 owners I have called with the 1.2L FIRE engine reported engines problems (aside from one which said he's engine fuel economy has gotten worse).

This is just the data "as is".

here is what I was told (and mind you - these are people who want to sell the car to me, so they sweeten the pill):

Again - all 0.9 Twinair engine:

1. "I can't drive the car in normal mode, only in ECO and I was told there's a turbo problem, IDK, I don't want to deal with this as I was told it's expensive" (very honest guy).

2. "it acts funny you'll have to drive it yourself, I think the engine needs some attention".

3. "actually it needs a new head, and I priced it as such"

4. "I was told needs a turbo replacement"

5. "I would say it's ok but even when I called my local fiat dealer they said this engine needs to be serviced at the main dealer, and I just can't bother and got a new car already"



As it looks, and again - based on the conditions in my country where it's VERY hot and traffic heavy, this engine is not as reliable as the "old" 1.2 one.


PIC is jut for one for references (deleted info to keep seller's privacy. Text says "engine head problem")

 

[bugsymike]

I think you are answering your own question
Basically they are great when they go but are very picky re oils etc. If neglected they can cost a fortune.
Personally as a retired motor engineer I would avoid them.

 

[steveras57]

Even the basic 1.2 engine has enough "quirks"for the average owner to be getting on with! twin air ok if maintained properly but even then can cause big cost issues specially post 30k miles!, if anyone says the word duologic punch them very hard and run away as fast as possible! pile of unreliable!.
stick with the 1.2!.

 

[jrkitching]

If you're buying used, then the 1.2 manual is by a very large margin the safest bet.

If I were looking for an older 500, wanted more performance, and either couldn't afford or didn't want to risk an A500, then I'd look for a decent 1.4, though there aren't many good ones left now.

I'd not consider buying a secondhand TA, diesel, or any dualogic.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I think you are answering your own question
Basically they are great when they go but are very picky re oils etc. If neglected they can cost a fortune.
Personally as a retired motor engineer I would avoid them.

Chicken! LOL

 

[The Panda Nut]

Chicken! LOL

You dont know what you are missing. I am a great lover of diesel engines and generally despise the petrol counterparts as limp wristed and gutless. The TA however is a third way and (while it goes) a delightful one. It seems the little two pots rev so smoothly I strongly suspect the ones that break have been regularly and needlessly overrevved. TA needs to be driven akin to a diesel with a difference and hopefully at much lower revs will last. (Please God, pretty please)

 

[bugsymike]

You dont know what you are missing. I am a great lover of diesel engines and generally despise the petrol counterparts as limp wristed and gutless. The TA however is a third way and (while it goes) a delightful one. It seems the little two pots rev so smoothly I strongly suspect the ones that break have been regularly and needlessly overrevved. TA needs to be driven akin to a diesel with a difference and hopefully at much lower revs will last. (Please God, pretty please)

My preference is large capacity slower revving diesels with loads of torque, I had several Iveco Daily's with 2.5 and 2.8 Sofim engines and rear wheel drive.
My favourite being the 2.8 iTD pre JTD /ECU etc. I admit 24 Mpg average is not brilliant, but when this is in a 3.5 tonne gross, vehicle that is towing 3.5 tonne with a nice 6 speed gearbox?
The other advantages over the Ducato versions apart from the separate steel chassis was the greater towing capacity and most important being rear wheel drive easy access to the engine and gearbox etc. Although if you had checked out and bought good ones they were pretty reliable and simple to repair/service.

 

[spidermania]

I admit 24 Mpg average is not brilliant

Correct, it's more like 'superb'. A vehicle at that weight with the towing capacity it has, only a diesel could give you that kind of mileage. Even a petrol with a turbo in the same class couldn't return mileage like that. Sadly a turbo is usually the weak link that will go first and I would have much preferred my spider had none. But it is what it is as they say.

 

[bugsymike]

Correct, it's more like 'superb'. A vehicle at that weight with the towing capacity it has, only a diesel could give you that kind of mileage. Even a petrol with a turbo in the same class couldn't return mileage like that. Sadly a turbo is usually the weak link that will go first and I would have much preferred my spider had none. But it is what it is as they say.

I have mentioned before on Forum, but I liked those engines so much I put one I rebuilt, from a 1997 Fiat Ducato (rated at 122hp) in a 21ft 1970 Coronet Cabin Cruiser I had in place of the broken original 150Hp Volvo Penta (V6 3.75litre Buick petrol engine)and after much tweaking of prop/turbo and injector pump I managed to get 26 knots and 4 gallons to the hour of diesel in place of the original petrol engines 10 gallons to the hour on five star petrol and 30 knots and ran it all year round for 4 years reliably before selling on and Summer or Winter first flick of the key, never needed any cold start device even with ice around the gunnels, so well pleased.

 

[The Panda Nut]

But diesel is bad news, terrible fuel of thebdevil and bad for the nevironment... blah blah blah. I suppose it also put out more CO and CO2 that a petrol engine too! You must be the son of satan doing such an evil thing. Sounds like a bloody good job to me and saving piles of money. LOL

I hope thebdo badders all go downstairs and have to sit in a bath of diesel for ever.

 

[bugsymike]

But diesel is bad news, terrible fuel of teh devil and bad for the nevironment... b;lah blah blah. I suppose it also put out more CO and CO2 that a petrol engine too! You must be the sone of satan doing such an evil thing. SOunds like a bloody good job to me and saving piles of money. LOL

I hope to do badders all go downstairs and have to sit in a bath of diesel for ever.

What I love is the way it was the Governments who told us to buy diesels in the first place, then realised their mistake?
So now it is EVs, I wonder how long before they decide the are no good as well
Still as long as they can force the cost onto the tax payer do they give a "flying fig"?

 

[The Panda Nut]

Diesel is so much more efficient than petrol, less fuel used, less CO2 vastly less CO that I cannot see how its not a useful part of transport. If we dont use it third world countries will do so to their benefit and our loss. With catalysts fitted there is no real reason not to use diesel. It makes more sense than petrol. Whatever idiot it was who killed it deserves a bad end. EV's are also a useful PART of the equation but clearly not the answer yet or in the forseeable future. I just hope government is funding research into any possible alternatives. My Bravo averaged around 64mpg over 100K and could do 85mpg with a lot of effort. That takes some beating, but they killed it as viable transport by idocy. Its sad to watch the poor efforts to make a sensible and viable change to something better. Lets just hope the scientistsand engineers, come up with something that will work or we are all heading back to the horse and cart. The first thing a caring and organised government should do to improve our transport issues is improve public transport. But what are they doing on this..... Keep that tin hat on it might just save you from death by flying fig! Or flying pig.

 

[LewisCinquecento91]

I’m in this predicament at the moment and having trouble deciding! Thanks for your info OP. Still unsure, and go back and forth every hour! Hoping to decide today and not look back. This hour, it’s the twin air 105