sumplug said:a T4 will make it so laggy, old biddys in micras will leave you off the line
maybe a T28 would be better, run in its own oil seperated from the sump.
Depends if it's a std T4 or a hybrid
Technical MK1 Uno Turbo chipped ECU
- Thread starter oldskoolmk1unoturbo
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Technical MK1 Uno Turbo chipped ECU
Depends if it's a std T4 or a hybrid
sumplug
Established member
still needs to spin up though.jamie86 said:Depends if it's a std T4 or a hybrid
sumplug said:sticking a bigger turbo on is not the answer to making these engines perform.
ive seen numerous engines with big turbos on and boosted right up so they are making about 190 bhp, and ive seen them with 160 bhp done properly and the 160 will eat the 190 because it is tractable from low revs.
all the bigger turbo does, is move the power and torque up making the car laggy at the bottom end where you need power and torque.
flow through the head is one answer for power. making the crankcase breathe is another.
at the end of the day, you want a tractable engine for the road where 80% of the time you are on low revs.
Dude, the topic of discussion was how strong the internals of the engine were. Now you are debating tuning ideas?
sumplug
Established member
uno_jens.
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Sumplug: Now I understand where you get everything from..
From the site above: "But above 190bhp the engines become increasingly temperamental. At 220bhp, because the engine stops flowing any more air, increasing the turbo size/ boost just raises temperatures to the point where everything important starts melting."
That is like a bible.. what is true and what isn´t? ha ha
Personal experience it what´s counts for me..
From the site above: "But above 190bhp the engines become increasingly temperamental. At 220bhp, because the engine stops flowing any more air, increasing the turbo size/ boost just raises temperatures to the point where everything important starts melting."
That is like a bible.. what is true and what isn´t? ha ha
Personal experience it what´s counts for me..
sumplug
Established member
personal experiance is true.uno_jens. said:
everthing i know from SFC is not.
but on that site, those words are written by someone who spent 250k miles in unos and found out off the people who know how to build unos right. that is race win engine builders. not some "bang a turbo on with high boost and off we go". absolutely everything written seems logical and correct.
some bibles on cars and engines are spot on. just read guy crofts twin-cam engine tuning book.
That’s not what I remember Martin (From SFC) telling mesumplug said:
. All I remember hearing and reading is that fuelling needs working before increasing boost from standard.Please could you jog my memory and direct us to somewhere that mentions up rating engine internals to increase boost from standard to 1.0 bar
.
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sumplug
Established member
i meant to say above 1.0 bar as we all know the car was designed to run this from the start.Louie Bee said:That’s not what I remember Martin (From SFC) telling me
Please could you jog my memory and direct us to somewhere that mentions up rating engine internals to increase boost from standard to 1.0 bar
sumplug said:
Ive been refered to that page before. Ive never botherd to read it. I go on personal and 1st had experence with adiquate references. I like to offer my experence to people, if they want help. At the end of the day people are free to believe what they like.
I just took a quick scroll down the page and the stock turbo's listed are incorrect for a start.
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sumplug
Established member
whats wrong with the list steve ?
yes, people are free to believe what they wish. but remember, tuning any engine is about good engineering practice. this is no doubt what you do. too many people follow the max power principal and whack big turbos on and turn the boost up and wonder why the engine goes bang.
yes, people are free to believe what they wish. but remember, tuning any engine is about good engineering practice. this is no doubt what you do. too many people follow the max power principal and whack big turbos on and turn the boost up and wonder why the engine goes bang.
i thought that steve when i read the list.
should be T2
Dunc
should be T2
Dunc
sumplug said:too many people follow the max power principal and whack big turbos on and turn the boost up and wonder why the engine goes bang.
Fair enough for some cars. There are many methods to increase power. some may work some may not.
If we want to get specific, Mk2 Uno turbo can take a larger turbo and or a little more boost with no mods to the efi. Ive done that many times with dyno time to give safe results. Mk1 needs more work.
Guy Croft
New member
Oldschool my friend - You're in trouble and need to make some key decisions before you turn the key. You're in crocodile territory. Take what I say in good faith.
Here are your choices:
1. Use a standard cam and hope that the prod system (pump, regulator, injectors, ecu) can offer the fuelling that your 'hybrid' turbo and 'other trick bits' need. I'm not trying to being funny when I say that. I do not know what the trick components are or what their characteristics are. For example - hybrid turbo. This is just a grand name coined by the industry for a non-standard unit put together with compressor A, turbine B, casing C etc.
Matching engineers in the turbocharger industry work full time getting the match right to an engine. Are there any matching engineers in the aftermarket with Ricardo 'Wave'? No. Most of this stuff is put together by experience not science. I watched matching engineers, I worked as Chief Engineer at Napier for 4 years so I know how involved it is. These guys live in a world of tempertures, pressures, flowrates.. A turbo - when the right choice - is quite efficient for a narrow flowrate/rpm/boost band and bad news anywhere else.
Did they give you the maps for your unit and if so how accurately do they mirror your engine characteristics. Is the turbine matched to the exhaust flow of your engine? Will the compressor operate within the right zone of the map or will it surge or choke? Do you know?
To determine whether your engine will work at all - with a standard cam, you need wideband Lambda to see what happens to the fuelling under load. Will it run with the comp cam? No, I don't think so, I think it may go madly lean and detonate the second it goes on boost. You could always ring Piper and ask them, they should know. Maybe you'll get away with increasing the injection pressure and the Webcon rising rate regulator will work up to 5 psi idle pressure increase.
2. Use the comp cam and get ready to start junking things - the ecu, injectors, regulator maybe fuel pump too.
If the cam has a lift integral more than 15% greater than standard from 16 thou lift onwards (area under the lift-degree curve) you're going to need at least - higher flow injectors with coil impedance suitable for your harness (size depending on engine/turbocharger airflow characteristics, and try finding any Bosch agent who will tell you what you need over the phone...), and maybe an aftermarket mappable ecu and harness from say, Weber DTA, Haltech, Motech etc and an expert to set it up. I mean expert not some cretin who reckons he knows a bit. I hear horror stories, yes. This will need at least two days on rolling road. If you can find anyone in the UK who can do this successfully under £2000 incl hardware call me.
You might be very lucky and find the right (bigger) injectors will run off the standard ecu, but you'll need wideband Lambda to determine this. I strongly suggest you get a charge inlet air temp gauge too. Over 45 deg C and you are firmly in detonation country. I don't know the boost potential of your new turbo but the standard intercooler may be too small or not strong enough to take the pressure.
I'm not commenting on engine strength here, clutch, rad etc etc, don't want to go on too much.
FWIW I never ever sell cams to turbo setups without warning people about these things. I get 10 calls a week about turbos and chips.
GC
Here are your choices:
1. Use a standard cam and hope that the prod system (pump, regulator, injectors, ecu) can offer the fuelling that your 'hybrid' turbo and 'other trick bits' need. I'm not trying to being funny when I say that. I do not know what the trick components are or what their characteristics are. For example - hybrid turbo. This is just a grand name coined by the industry for a non-standard unit put together with compressor A, turbine B, casing C etc.
Matching engineers in the turbocharger industry work full time getting the match right to an engine. Are there any matching engineers in the aftermarket with Ricardo 'Wave'? No. Most of this stuff is put together by experience not science. I watched matching engineers, I worked as Chief Engineer at Napier for 4 years so I know how involved it is. These guys live in a world of tempertures, pressures, flowrates.. A turbo - when the right choice - is quite efficient for a narrow flowrate/rpm/boost band and bad news anywhere else.
Did they give you the maps for your unit and if so how accurately do they mirror your engine characteristics. Is the turbine matched to the exhaust flow of your engine? Will the compressor operate within the right zone of the map or will it surge or choke? Do you know?
To determine whether your engine will work at all - with a standard cam, you need wideband Lambda to see what happens to the fuelling under load. Will it run with the comp cam? No, I don't think so, I think it may go madly lean and detonate the second it goes on boost. You could always ring Piper and ask them, they should know. Maybe you'll get away with increasing the injection pressure and the Webcon rising rate regulator will work up to 5 psi idle pressure increase.
2. Use the comp cam and get ready to start junking things - the ecu, injectors, regulator maybe fuel pump too.
If the cam has a lift integral more than 15% greater than standard from 16 thou lift onwards (area under the lift-degree curve) you're going to need at least - higher flow injectors with coil impedance suitable for your harness (size depending on engine/turbocharger airflow characteristics, and try finding any Bosch agent who will tell you what you need over the phone...), and maybe an aftermarket mappable ecu and harness from say, Weber DTA, Haltech, Motech etc and an expert to set it up. I mean expert not some cretin who reckons he knows a bit. I hear horror stories, yes. This will need at least two days on rolling road. If you can find anyone in the UK who can do this successfully under £2000 incl hardware call me.
You might be very lucky and find the right (bigger) injectors will run off the standard ecu, but you'll need wideband Lambda to determine this. I strongly suggest you get a charge inlet air temp gauge too. Over 45 deg C and you are firmly in detonation country. I don't know the boost potential of your new turbo but the standard intercooler may be too small or not strong enough to take the pressure.
I'm not commenting on engine strength here, clutch, rad etc etc, don't want to go on too much.
FWIW I never ever sell cams to turbo setups without warning people about these things. I get 10 calls a week about turbos and chips.
GC
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Guy Croft
New member
I didn't mean to kill the thread guys..
I’m taking it all in .
Cheers,
.Aw Go on, what's the bottom end like...Guy Croft said:
has anyone called yetGuy Croft said:
Cheers,
I dont believe a cam will make all that much difference with a standard turbo. That is with respect to power and efi requirements.
With an adiquate turbo a cam may come into play. However the stock efi may not support the full potential of the turbo, let alone the cam too. So you may need to upgrade the efi. My point is, dont worry about the cam too much, worry about the turbo.
With an adiquate turbo a cam may come into play. However the stock efi may not support the full potential of the turbo, let alone the cam too. So you may need to upgrade the efi. My point is, dont worry about the cam too much, worry about the turbo.
