M5 crash

[Andy Monty]

Yes, weak antifreeze mixes cause countless road deaths in this country

But if your car then seizes up on the motorway as the block or rad has frozen you become a hazard.........

built in automatic fire extinguishers may save a few lives

Older now banned on environmental grounds Halon systems were very good



Dry powder is ok but cant knock out a fire easily if you cant see the fire base

Foam freezes in winter (add an antifreeze solution to it and you reduce its effectiveness)


newer halon substitutes are very expensive....


I think Every car should be made to carry a minimum of a 1kg Powder extinguisher with larger cars/ vans carrying a 2kg unit ((most HGV's carry a 6kg powder anyhow)) (and add a small section in the driving test on how to use them) and also fetch in the Mercy law like they have in France, In a motorway accident for example you get 12 cars equipped with extinguishers stopping to help that the equivalent of 2 industrial/ commercial extinguishers.....

 

[ChrisUK]

There's alternatives to halon that are just as good. We had a server room that we needed to de-commision the halon system (no longer legal) and they used an alternative legal gas I really can't remember what it's called though :chin:.

 

[JTD_Liam]

:bang:
And THIS is why accidents happen.
The HA invested loads of money on signs. They turn them on for a reason, just because they don't happen to give YOU chapter and verse, doesn't mean to say you should ignore them.

Just telling it how it is. If there's a valid reason then i'll take notice, but so often i've found the signs saying '40' for a couple of miles & all i've seen is a pair of workmen on the embankment or hard shoulder. Slowing traffic to 40mph for that is just daft. If they only set signs in serious situations rather than Health & Safety overkill then maybe people would take more notice.

Besides, there's nothing saying the signs were actually switched on at the time of the accident & there's a bend just before the accident site, plus an entry slip, so there's every possibility that people simply didn't see people braking until it was too late.

 

[Andy Monty]

There's alternatives to halon that are just as good. We had a server room that we needed to de-commision the halon system (no longer legal) and they used an alternative legal gas I really can't remember what it's called though :chin:.

Most places have had to change to carbon dioxide the other replacements are expensive
http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/fire-gas-safety/fireblitz/automatic-gtfe-halon-replacement-5979-5980-598175.bhtml

 

[djedwardsmith]

Good Case of Not stupid comments thank you, the point is still very true, its a good case to keep the motorway at 70, Stupid comments like yours don't help either

Stupid comments like mine?

You're using an accident which although nobody has a clear indication as to what caused it yet (and if you do, kindly inform the police investigation team currently trying to piece if together) and claiming that speed clearly was the influencing factor.

How do you know the cars involved weren't all going at 50mph and the fog was just too severe that they couldn't see the incident above? You don't.

So spouting out garbage about how THIS SHOWS WE SHOULDN'T INCREASE THE LIMITE TO 80MPH is just horrendously ill-founded, has no logical backing behind it and is just typical tabloid reaction from somebody who doesn't use common sense when tryin to make a point. Hell, you yourself made a comment later on in your post which practically leaves your original point as garbage.

[q]yes the reduced speed signs would have been on - but 95% of people dont give a crap and keep going[/q]

So if people don't follow the speed signs or speed limit, what change will an 80mph make? These ''95%'' will still speed and these horrendous accidents that are clearly so common will become far more severe because EVERYONE will be driving 10mph fastr no matter what the weather, conditions etc...

 

[gadge]

as a lorry driver myself, it makes me shudder to see all that twisted burnt out metal stewn across the motorway. i don't know how it started so i hope i'm wrong but i can't help but think that this horrible accident was probably caused by someones poor driving skills, a lapse in judgement, driving too fast in the poor weather or just not paying attention to whats happening around them? ........ i see some shocking driving on a daliy basis in my job...... cars going too fast, lorries way too close, people on their phones, heavy rain with no lights on......

 

[Magic Johnson]

Gents, was possibly caused by the smoke from the firework display just off the M5. Apparently floated across the carriageway very suddenly and basically reduced visibility to near 0%.

I apologise for my argument of this being caused by tailgaters or people not paying attention. There's really not much you can do if you drive straight in to a smoke cloud. Damned if you brake, damned if you don't.

RIP once again, some people need to be held accountable if this was indeed caused by a firework display right next to a very busy motorway.

 

[sludgeguts]

If there's a valid reason then i'll take notice, but so often i've found the signs saying '40' for a couple of miles & all i've seen is a pair of workmen on the embankment or hard shoulder. Slowing traffic to 40mph for that is just daft. If they only set signs in serious situations rather than Health & Safety overkill then maybe people would take more notice.

Besides, there's nothing saying the signs were actually switched on at the time of the accident & there's a bend just before the accident site, plus an entry slip, so there's every possibility that people simply didn't see people braking until it was too late.

And perhaps there were more workmen around just a few moments earlier? It doesn't take much to cause an accident at high speed, a split second lack of concentration - oh look, a couple of workmen, I wonder what they're doi...
Neither you nor I need a valid reason for speed signs, they don't illuminate them for a laugh.

 

[Dragon Man]

i carry 2 small CO2 fire extinguishers in my cinq.. one is in the boot and one is just behind the center console, under the dash held inplace with velcro.. fitted them myself..
heh never know with my wireing
but if i saw a car on fire at the side of the road i would use both to put it out (if the car was still saveable)

 

[Gaz37]

some people need to be held accountable if this was indeed caused by a firework display right next to a very busy motorway.

I disagree.

I regularly attend a firework dipslay adjacent to the M4/M5 interchange which is directly opposite Avon and Somerset Police's RPU in all the years I've been going there there has never been an issue with smoke affecing visibility on the motorways, nor have the ploice ever suggested that it might be an issue.

This is typical of the "blame culture" that is prevelant in this country, with the best will in the world I doubt anyone could reasonably have foreseen the unfortunate accident on Friday or prevented it.

Sometimes we have to accept that accidents happen, of course this will mean none of the massive compensation pay outs that drive insurance costs up year after year.

 

[Gaz37]

Neither you nor I need a valid reason for speed signs, they don't illuminate them for a laugh.

Maybe not but they do leave them on for days after an incident has cleared.

Or after sitting in crawling traffic for 5 miles you often arrive at a sign flashing 40.

Frankly they are so misused it's little wonder they are ignored

 

[dave]

This is typical of the "blame culture" that is prevelant in this country, with the best will in the world I doubt anyone could reasonably have foreseen the unfortunate accident on Friday or prevented it.

The Highways Act 1980 makes it an offence to light a fire and allow smoke to drift across a public highway where it could endanger traffic

 

[Gaz37]

The Highways Act 1980 makes it an offence to light a fire and allow smoke to drift across a public highway where it could endanger traffic

I'm sure it does but the point I was making is that if traffic police have regularly driven past a similar event every year with no concerns how could the organisers of the display at Taunton rugby Club be reasonably expected to see the potential, and being honest very small, risk to traffic on the M5.
I expect that they have been having displays there for years with no such problem.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[pooroldcodger]

Maybe not but they do leave them on for days after an incident has cleared.

Or after sitting in crawling traffic for 5 miles you often arrive at a sign flashing 40.

Frankly they are so misused it's little wonder they are ignored

Or driving across the M62 and you see a sign saying that there are delays on the M25 (180 miles away).

 

[gadge]

Gents, was possibly caused by the smoke from the firework display just off the M5. Apparently floated across the carriageway very suddenly and basically reduced visibility to near 0%.

I apologise for my argument of this being caused by tailgaters or people not paying attention. There's really not much you can do if you drive straight in to a smoke cloud. Damned if you brake, damned if you don't.

RIP once again, some people need to be held accountable if this was indeed caused by a firework display right next to a very busy motorway.

me too bud , i was quick to blame someones poor driving? theres been a fire at a recylce dump just by the A6 at J10 of the A14 and thats been smoking away now for about 4 weeks!! but depending on the wind direction, sometimes the smoke covers the carrige way and its a right Ba***rd to see though? about 3 times worse i'ld say than fog? i doubt anyone had real time to avoid what happend on friday night......... but playing devils advocate for a miuite, can anyone be held accountable for the wind blowing smoke? i mean, they've probably had bonfires there for the last 20 years?

 

[Gaz37]

, can anyone be held accountable for the wind blowing smoke?

Yes, if an ambulance chasing personal injury solicitor thinks he can make a few quid out of it.

Followed closely by moutains of needless rules & regulations that go even further towards people losing their ability to use common sense and/or think for themselves

 

[Andy Monty]

i mean, they've probably had bonfires there for the last 20 years?

there is a specific offence to smoke from your fire if it blows across a road....

"Smoke blowing across a highway (road or footpath) can be an offence under the Highways Act 1980,"

 

[Gaz37]

I think some common sense needs to be applied here.

How many fireworks dispalys have been held over the years near to a major road or motorway? Probably tens of thousands, including the one that I referred to earlier directly opposite the police traffic HQ.

Could the event organisers have reasonably foreseen this happening? Hardly.

Who exactly would be held responsible?

Do we really want to see the Chairperson of a minor league rugby club in court for manslaughter?

Would this spell the end of any firework display whether private or public? What if a rocket from someone's back garden hit a low flying air ambulance or police helicopter? The odds of that happening are probably similar to those of smoke drifting onto a motorway & causing a crash.

 

[dave]

so if someone drives around for 20 years with no licence then 1 day crashes they should be let off because they have been doing it for 20 years before with out crashing?

 

[Magic Johnson]

The Highways Act 1980 makes it an offence to light a fire and allow smoke to drift across a public highway where it could endanger traffic

This, Gaz37.

Try telling common sense to be applied to the families of the people that lost their lives.

Common sense was NOT applied, as there would have been no bonfires or fireworks display anywhere near a bloody motorway.

Someone definitely needs to be held accountable.