Jump starters and jump starting.

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

You'll have to leave the lights on one of the cars overnight. Although, you'll have to fend off the neighbours knocking the door to tell you.

That wouldn't work because the "clever" little electronics turn the lights off when you lock the car up! Anyway, knowing my luck the low battery voltage would do some sort of interference with the electronics and loose the radio code, window positions, and a whole lot of other stuff I'd rather not have to deal with! I'm going to try putting it through a charge cycle on the old Punto battery in the workshop and see how that works. I'm going to monitor the voltage at the lead clamps with my voltmeter and, if it fully charges - as I'm expecting it will - I'm then, with the jump pack still connected to the battery, I'm going to press the "start" button on the jump pack and see what the voltage reading is. Expecting it to start off at somewhere around 14 to 15 volts and rapidly fall back to whatever the standing open circuit voltage was before I started. If it does that I'll be confident it's all working as it should.

I'm feeling considerably better this morning compared to my "tummy event" yesterday and Mrs J is pressing me for us to go up to John Lewis and buy her that iphone 16e she's been told to buy by our son in law. If I survive that I'll maybe have a go at the jump pack this afternoon.

 

[portland_bill]

That wouldn't work because the "clever" little electronics turn the lights off when you lock the car up!

With the Panda, if you turn the lights off, then once the ignition is off, turn sidelights on and they should stay on as parking lights.
The Scala will do the same, but being of German origin, it also has parking lights. With ignition off, set indicators to one side, and that should put the side and tail lights on that side, without illuminating the dash.
You'd still get the neighbours being helpful though.

(Now you've got that urge to go have a play, haven't you.)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

With the Panda, if you turn the lights off, then once the ignition is off, turn sidelights on and they should stay on as parking lights.
The Scala will do the same, but being of German origin, it also has parking lights. With ignition off, set indicators to one side, and that should put the side and tail lights on that side, without illuminating the dash.
You'd still get the neighbours being helpful though.

(Now you've got that urge to go have a play, haven't you.)

Thanks PB. Don't want to sound a "know it all", because I don't know it all by a long way, but I did know the above. Especially the German way of having the parking lights controlled by the indicator position. I first came across that years ago when I worked for Firestone and spent a lot of time in Germany. Thought it was a fault first time I came across it.

We've just returned from John Lewis with Mrs J's new iphone so this afternoon she's going to try to get a bargain sim for it - We don't really know what we're doing but I guess we'll get there in the end. While she's doing that I'm going to have a play with the jump pack in the garage. I'll let you all know how I get on with it later.

 

[irc]

.
The Scala will do the same, but being of German origin, it also has parking lights. With ignition off, set indicators to one side, and that should put the side and tail lights on that side, without illuminating the dash.

So does the Panda.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

@the green vanper. I promised above that I'd report back after I'd had a play with the jump pack. Well, Mrs J got a bit tied up in knots trying to get the sim card ordered so I spent some time with her and between the two of us we seem to have managed. We've bought one that renews every month and I've linked payment to my paypal account so I don't have to give them my credit card number. I've no idea if that's a good way to do it but it's worked and the card should be here within 2 days they say. Mind you, we've no idea what you do with it once it comes but "high tech" son in law says he'll sort us out.

So, that task accomplished I hauled out the old Punto battery and checked it over. This battery was not holding voltage very well when in the car but I keep it on the smart charger a couple of times a week and it's good enough as a standby power source when needed for continuity if a vehicle battery needs to be disconnected for some reason. I checked it with my voltmeter and it was showing about 11.4 volts. I connected up both the jump pack leads - pos lead to pos terminal and neg to neg, as detailed in the instruction leaflet. I was expecting the pack to "come alive" as the leaflet says to just connect the leads and charging will start. But, nope, nothing happens. The little display screen stayed blank. Hmm? Oh well, maybe it needs to be switched on? There is only one button, the green one. So I pressed it and immediately there's a substantial "Click" from the unit, the red indicator illuminates and the wee display panel lights up to show battery voltage at 11.5 volts and under it the unit charge slowly increasing with the %age showing to it's right. Over the next two or three minutes the unit charge steadily increased until it showed 15 volts and 100%. The red indicator goes out and the green one illuminates. So fully charged and ready to go. Battery voltage now showing around 10 volts. So seems to have charged successfully. Unfortunately at this point my neighbour stuck his head round the garage door and asked what I was up to which completely distracted me. Anyway, he's a nice chap so I showed him the jump pack and explained about it. Turns out he is some sort of industrial electronics engineer and understood everything I was talking about. In particular he knew all about super (Ultra as he called them) capacitors and was very interested in this application of them.

So, having "shot the breeze" for a while I connected my voltmeter to the jump lead clamps, which registered the existing battery voltage of course, (which had recovered by a couple of points of voltage in value, but only to about 10.5 volts, while standing) and pressed the green button again. I got exactly what I was expecting. There was a click and the voltage on the meter jumped to just under 15 volts and then fell back linearly to about 13 volts before the jump pack turned itself off with a click and immediately started recharging. I let it recharge before disconnecting the leads because this is what the leaflet says to do. At the end of all this the vehicle battery was showing about a volt less than it had been showing when I started.

So, apart from the unit not commencing to charge immediately on connecting the leads but needing you to press the green button, it's done everything I expected it to do, including charging to 15 volts and then pushing a goodly whack back into the battery when the "start" function was activated. It held in the region of 14 volts for a good ten to 15 seconds before falling away slightly and then breaking the connection. I think it gives you around 20 seconds cranking time before turning off (probably to protect itself?) I'm in no doubt this unit will do what it needs to do in a jump start situation. Of course the proof of the pudding will need a real life jump start situation but I really can't see any reason why it shouldn't work very well. I was also impressed by the "meaty" click of the solenoid/solenoids (don't know if there's more than one) which you hear when it's starting to charge and again when, once charged up, you change from parallel to series connection of the capacitors. They give the impression of being well up to the job. By the way, if you do nothing with it then it shuts down after 30 seconds. Regarding the commencement of charge requiring the button to be depressed - whereas the leaflet seemed to say it automatically commences when the leads were connected to the battery, I think there may be an inbuilt delay (which I overrid by pushing the button?) Next time I try it I'm going to connect the leads and wait a wee while to see if there's a delay. If it were to start pulling current immediately that might risk a spark being generated as you connect the clamps? so either a delay, or pressing the button, to complete the circuit makes sense to me.

So now it's in the boot of the car, fully charged, waiting for action. I'm going to monitor the stored voltage to see at what rate the capacitors discharge. One review I read reckoned it would hold enough voltage to start a small/medium sized engine for several days.

I've really enjoyed myself and my neighbour's input from someone who understands electronics was very interesting. I actually carried the battery to just outside the garage door in case something went badly wrong - high currents involved - The sun was shining, it was really quite nice and warm and the companionship and "banter" with my neighbour made for a very pleasant three quarters of an hour.

 

[the green vanper]

Thanks for the 'review'.

There's only one thing that makes me hesitate about the starter pack. Lead-acid batteries don't like voltage being dropped belov 10,8 V. As the starter pack will charge from the battery itself, lowering the voltage by appx. 1 V, how this will impact the life / health of the lead-acid battery.

I know such voltage drops last a short time only and won't happen everyday but in emergency situations only, so it's just theory, but I'm still interested to know it

Hope it'll do its job when needed

 

[AnthonyH]

I bought a desulfator and it arrived today. My dead battery has gone from 0% health to 90%. I was very surprised. Its like these things are kept secret so the car battery retailers can contine to sell new batteries when a repair is appropriate.

So you can buy one of these that'll repair your battery if the starter pack appears to be reducing its health..

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I bought a desulfator and it arrived today. My dead battery has gone from 0% health to 90%. I was very surprised. Its like these things are kept secret so the car battery retailers can contine to sell new batteries when a repair is appropriate.

So you can buy one of these that'll repair your battery if the starter pack appears to be reducing its health..

That's an interesting device. My old ctek had a desulfator program which I tried on the Punto battery and it definitely improved it's functionality.

Now that I've explored and tried out the new Capacitor jump starter - as much as I can without having a car actually needing a jump start - I've had the opportunity to further consider my purchase and whether it's been a "wise" buy or not. In terms of it's ability to perform a jump start I think there is probably little between it and a battery based pack - as long as the battery based pack - usually a lithium ion battery these days - has a battery of sufficient capacity. Of course, because a battery based pack actually contains a battery most will allow you to use them as a power bank to charge a phone or operate an inbuilt light, some even have a tyre inflator. The capacitor device will hold it's charge for several days and during that time it can be used to power a phone via it's USB port. I fully charged it yesterday and am monitoring it to see how quickly it depletes. The leaflet in it's box implies it may hold charge for longer than I think it may.

So there are minor points of difference we can consider but the very noticeable "elephant in the room" for me anyway, is that you've got to remember to periodically charge the type which uses a battery pack whereas, by it's very nature, the capacitor type is charged by the depleted battery in the vehicle which is failing to start. Only if the vehicle battery is below 5 volts will this fail (because the capacitors individually are rated at 2.7 volts and need in excess of this to charge) However if presented with this situation you can charge up from another vehicle or, rather more slowly, charge from the USB with enclosed mains charger. I also like that the generally accepted lifetime of a capacitor seems to be in excess of 10 years whereas a battery is likely to have a useful life of about half that (and less if you let it go completely flat.)

If thinking about buying any of these reasonably small convenient jump packs you need to factor in that none of them will give you extended cranking, only another vehicle or nice big slave battery will achieve that - and jumping from another vehicle is fraught with danger for electronic components - However, if the vehicle is failing to start because the voltage of it's battery has dropped just below the threshold to operate the starter - probably around 10 volts - then most of these devices, whatever type, will crank the engine and give you a start if there's not a deeper problem causing it to fail to start.

Just to finish off, and I think I've mentioned this before, but it's worth repeating - If you decide to jump from car to car with a conventional set of jump leads then firstly don't let the two car bodies touch anywhere and don't have both vehicles with their ignition switched on both at the same time as this is pretty much letting all the various electronics in the two vehicles be affected by each other and they may not be compatible resulting in possibly very expensive component failure. Back in the "good old days" us oldies were taught to keep the donor vehicle engine running in case the jump was unsuccessfull and the donor vehicle battery became too depleted to restart the "good" car. Now a days, that's a recipe for disaster. If you really have to jump vehicle to vehicle then make sure the donor vehicle is switched off and key (or fob if keyless) is nowhere near the vehicle. Personally I'd have to be in the middle of the Sahara, or somewhere equally hopeless, before I'd consider jumping vehicle to vehicle! (PS. you might want to use surge protected jump leads too)

 

[the green vanper]

The Baseus jumpstarter I own discharges around 19% of its capacity to charge the car battery everytime it is connected when the battery voltage is insufficient (according to the jumpstarter's logic; I have not mesured it).

So, it should allow to charge 5 times. Have not tried how many times I could crank on such 1 charge. Usually the car started directly afterwards. I don't have a car I could experiment with...

The advantage of the old jumpstarter I had earlier is that you could start a car without a battery It won't work with the new one. Nor with the supercapacitor one.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The Baseus jumpstarter I own discharges around 19% of its capacity to charge the car battery everytime it is connected when the battery voltage is insufficient (according to the jumpstarter's logic; I have not mesured it).

So, it should allow to charge 5 times. Have not tried how many times I could crank on such 1 charge. Usually the car started directly afterwards. I don't have a car I could experiment with...

The advantage of the old jumpstarter I had earlier is that you could start a car without a battery It won't work with the new one. Nor with the supercapacitor one.

For sure I won't be binning my two lead acid batteries for the reason you mention above. However, carting them around 24/7 in the boot is not a realistic option which is why I now have the capacitor jobbie which is going to accompany me all the time and probably deal with the majority of "flat" battery situations.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Update on the jump pack.

You'll remember I tried it out on the old Punto battery on Monday and, after "mucking about" I let it charge fully - showing 100% and 15 volts on it's screen - and was going to check it daily to see how it was holding charge. Some of the claims it makes on it's box interest me greatly, in particular these:

"No built in batteries" - That seems entirely consistent with it being, as it's packaging claims, a super/ultra capacitor device.

"Does not drain during storage" - This sounds interesting. I wouldn't have thought a capacitor based device would hold charge for very long? However, first test out the box and before letting it even get a "sniff" at the Punto battery showed it to be quite well charged - presumably from when it was tested prior to leaving the factory?

Full recharge in 2 to 10 minutes - this seems to be true as it took just minutes when first connected to charge fully. On line reviews report it charges up within around 5 minutes from a car battery

Jumpstart several vehicles with one charge - I'll only be able to test that one if I need to do this, but I've seen an online video which shows it doing repeated starts with no sign of it being charged up inbetween.

So, I was planning on checking it's charge every day but, as it does, life got in the way and today, Friday, has been the first day I remembered to check it. (initial test results taken last Monday) and it's now showing 14.9 volts and 100% charged (read 15 volts and 100% charged last Monday) So does seem to have quite good retention. I'll continue to check it periodically when I remember and see if it depletes. - Surely it must?

Still waiting for a distressed family member, friend or neighbour so I can check it out for real.

 

[the green vanper]

Just for comparison, if you don't mind:

my li-ion based baseus jumpstarter shows 64% of charge. I really can't remember when I charged it. I remember using it end of November / beginning of December, but can't remember how many times I've connected it to the battery. Nor if I have charged it afterwards.

So let's leave it without charging at 64% and 14,95 V on the jumpstarter terminals (not the cables). I will report in some time

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Just for comparison, if you don't mind:

my li-ion based baseus jumpstarter shows 64% of charge. I really can't remember when I charged it. I remember using it end of November / beginning of December, but can't remember how many times I've connected it to the battery. Nor if I have charged it afterwards.

So let's leave it without charging at 64% and 14,95 V on the jumpstarter terminals (not the cables). I will report in some time

I'm intending to just let mine sit, without recharging, and periodically monitor what it's showing on it's display both in terms of voltage and %age charge. Unless, of course, I have to use it. I'll report back here if there is anything interesting. By the way, the jump pack and leads are all insulated with the only place open to monitoring being the cable clamps at the ends of the leads. However the displayed voltage on the jump pack seems to exactly mirror the voltage when I check the leads with my voltmeter. (as you would expect and hope)

 

[the green vanper]

I'm intending to just let mine sit, without recharging, and periodically monitor what it's showing on it's display both in terms of voltage and %age charge

I'll do the same