Induction - options

[muppet42]

Okay, so it's a much talked about subject but thought I would do a thread about it as I've been racking my brains for months trying to consider the options.

Basically what I want is obviously a performance gain (even just a little one) and for it to be fairly audible even loud.

Now, K&N 57i is junk from what I can see. The PDF fitting guide shows the rubbish final position - http://www.knfilters.com/instructions/57-0579_inst.pdf

I also believe the standard Pipercross and probably Powertec systems hook up in the exact same way.

Initially I thought GSR. Yeah, expensive and customer care sucks, but I emailed Peter about lead times, payment and any discounts. He only told me lead time and that there was a discount but didn't tell me how to pay or how much it'd be with the discount. Emailed him again asking this, but no reply in over a week and a half - dead end it seems.

Then I thought BMC CDA, as shown on the similarly engine bayed 1.2 16v Punto...

But not sure about how loud it actually is and also if the positioning is any better than the K&N for the money. It's enclosed which will obviously help, but not sure if it's best.

Have looked into building my own through parts from these people - http://www.regals-motorsport.co.uk/ - as Red Devil (member on FF and FSOC, used to have a Stilo Schui GP edition) did a system for his 156 for £110 odd. Looks good, but a little worried about mucking up sizes and the like. Still looks like the best option though.

But then, I noticed on eBay that Regal also do some other Apiro kits like this filter kit for around £50 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360203242144&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT , which looks like a cut price Pipercross Viper and this one for £90 odd - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200394764012&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT , which looks like a cut price BMC CDA.

So then, what I'd like to know is -

what's your opinion on any of these kits?
Any of them good or are they all rubbish ideas and a waste of money?
And what's your experience of induction kits good/bad?

Cheers for any help
​

 

[Stuart]

if its enclosed, then you will lose the induction sound, my personal preference would be the pipercross viper, but they are bloody expensive, dont know much about the others that you have posted about tho.

 

[Venters]

It's all about the custom.

 

[muppet42]

if its enclosed, then you will lose the induction sound, my personal preference would be the pipercross viper, but they are bloody expensive, dont know much about the others that you have posted about tho.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Though as I understand it, you still get a "woosh" kind of noise from the induction on them. Would just like some more show with my go

The Viper for my Stilo's still over £190, which puts it well and truly at the top of the price list. Have heard good things about it, but does look rather similar that Apiro.

Totally forgot about the Quikshift Tapian as well. Similar idea again with the enclosed option, but cheaper than the CDA -

http://www.quikshiftracing.co.uk/Taipan_Air_Filter.htm

Which is something like £130-140 odd. Cheaper than the BMC option but looks feasible as an option.
​

It's all about the custom.

Figured you may say that

The stuff Regal do has Apiro stuff at the core of it. The cone for example would be from them. Does look good, that kit that Red Devil made used metal aluminium pipes. He said it gives a good purposeful sound with the Twin Spark. Basic design of his is similar to the GSR F26i for my Stilo, but doesn't hang as low in the bay, which would hopefully avoid any straw to water type action.

Would've liked to have got the induction on for Perth, but doubt I'll get it on in time. Still, at least I've got the exhaust done so RGZ at least sounds and goes a bit better

 

[Venters]

Ebay is your friend with the stainless tubing and rubber reducers. The kit on my Mums Marea uses a CDA where as mine has a twincone. Mines has a noticeably louder induction roar. But hers is a 147 20V so although close is not a perfect comparison.

 

[Fasckira]

Initially I thought GSR. Yeah, expensive and customer care sucks, but I emailed Peter about lead times, payment and any discounts.

Sloppy site design (the title still says "Untitled Document", crivens!) means Im inherently distrustful. A poor site says a lot about the seller, really.

As for kits, I was toying with saving up for the Viper but its quite a big investment at £200. I always fall for the "Its expensive, it must be a good brand" honeypot, so Im very interested to see what the outcome of this thread is, particularly with regards to the cheaper brands!

 

[mrcinquecento]

If you want a gsr, try and source a used one.

Not only is it cheaper but you avoid the attrocious "customer service"

il be honest, the gsr kit on my cinq makes a huge difference to torque low down, i didnt buy it new from pete, mine was a barely used one. Tbh the extra cost of a new gsr isnt really justifiable for the gains over other kits. I wouldnt gave bought new because of the frankly useless service and his arrogant attitude when people question his kits perfectly validly.

Before my gsr came on the market i was sourcing parts to make my own. I fully believe its possible to make a kit that has better gains per £ so the custom route is what i reccomend.

Just do your research before ordering the bits

 

[muppet42]

Ebay is your friend with the stainless tubing and rubber reducers. The kit on my Mums Marea uses a CDA where as mine has a twincone. Mines has a noticeably louder induction roar. But hers is a 147 20V so although close is not a perfect comparison.

Yeah, have noticed the tubing and reducers on eBay - many are actually sold by Regal. Pretty cheap for the parts and overall could still be the cheaper option I reckon. Plus I could choose just how loud I would want it to be - twin cone me thinks

Sloppy site design (the title still says "Untitled Document", crivens!) means Im inherently distrustful. A poor site says a lot about the seller, really.

As for kits, I was toying with saving up for the Viper but its quite a big investment at £200. I always fall for the "Its expensive, it must be a good brand" honeypot, so Im very interested to see what the outcome of this thread is, particularly with regards to the cheaper brands!

Yup, that's the main thing I thought when I saw the site the first time. I mean, they don't even have details on how to pay or where to send the money. The email Peter did send was toned perfectly fine, it just didn't have any of the information I really needed which I find frustrating.

I'm going to send another email to find out the details again and see if he responds. If he doesn't within a week, then to hell with trying to get one from him.

The Viper does look appealing, certainly for the under the bonnet show it ticks the boxes. Some people on the Alfa forum seem to think it's decent too. Apparently it's not as quiet as the BMC CDA either, which for would be a good thing It's just that cost that puts me off it, especially as that cheaper (quarter the cost) kit on eBay looks so similar :nutter:

If you want a gsr, try and source a used one.

Not only is it cheaper but you avoid the attrocious "customer service"

il be honest, the gsr kit on my cinq makes a huge difference to torque low down, i didnt buy it new from pete, mine was a barely used one. Tbh the extra cost of a new gsr isnt really justifiable for the gains over other kits. I wouldnt gave bought new because of the frankly useless service and his arrogant attitude when people question his kits perfectly validly.

Before my gsr came on the market i was sourcing parts to make my own. I fully believe its possible to make a kit that has better gains per £ so the custom route is what i reccomend.

Just do your research before ordering the bits

GSR kits second hand seem to be like gold dust though. Coyle on FF has taken his off I think, so may give him a buzz and see if he fancies selling it to me. It's the same colour as I was going to go for (red), so wouldn't mind it and he replaced the cone recently so would be ideal

Apparently if Peter gets hands on with the car, he's perfectly fine. I reckon his manner in any other communication though can be a bit abrupt to say the least if his knowledge or business practices are challenged. From what I gather, his time and resources are pretty thinly stretched, which would lead to a stressed business man I'd imagine.

Not that I'm excusing the way he treats customers current and potential, but it could be a reason behind it.

Main reason I considered them was due to the good feedback and proven gains of the kits themselves. The kit itself is made probably through the tubing. The cone is about as cheap as you could get I believe. But the fact the actual silicone tubing is so smooth with no joins makes it probably the best for funnelling the cold air to the engine uninterrupted.

I'm erring more towards home made if I'm honest though. Cost comes into it, but also the fact it could be the next best thing as you say in terms of £s per gain.

Just need to work out the thickness of the tubing and the like. The pipe connecting to the actual intake is probably 76mm at the connection but the tubing to the airbox is around 60mm. For obvious reasons, I don't want to get wrong

And by the way, cheers for the advice everyone

 

[ABZSTILO]

You know my view from FSOC - avoid the GSR, the BMC would be my choice given the budget
But as discussed elsewhere, there's merit in building your own :idea3:

 

[muppet42]

Well, have found out the diameter of the pipe to most likely be 70mm, which causes issues as I can't locate many of the parts I need for a custom kit in that size. If it were 76mm, it'd be easy as could be AND slightly cheaper.

Totalled up what I would need in terms of silicone hose, couplers, clips and filter from the Regal site and it comes to around £135. Slight saving on the GSR, but not a lot. Was hoping to be a good 30 quid less than that, but oh well.

Think I'll ponder a few more days, check my bank balance and decide then what to get. Phil (PNL on FF and FSOC) linked me to this kit -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/04-06-Fiat-St...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d269ca1d7
- which is cheap and looks a better alternative to the K&N, etc. But also looks a bit iffy to me in that kind of cheap, but not good cheap, eBay type way.

Oh, I've also resent the last email I sent to Peter enquiring about the GSR kit. Figured since there's not as much of a saving between custom and his as I thought there would be, I should give it ONE more try. I'll give him a week and if he doesn't respond, I think I'll be building my own.

 

[ABZSTILO]

I wouldn't get hung up on waiting for Peter, it'd be a bit like waiting for a glacier to rush past..........

Bearing in mind the costs involved I'd still try and find a BMC kit..... but I'll cast my eye around for bits to help out. I know I saw something in an advert in http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/ that may be of help. Will see what I find when I'm back up in Inverness

 

[Fasckira]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/04-06-Fiat-St...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d269ca1d7
- which is cheap and looks a better alternative to the K&N, etc. But also looks a bit iffy to me in that kind of cheap, but not good cheap, eBay type way.

Check the negative feedback for that guy; there seems to be a lot of "bought this <item> doenst fit like described" kind of bad feedback. There could just a be a lot of tards of course, but I dont see as much negative feedback on the other kits.

 

[muppet42]

I wouldn't get hung up on waiting for Peter, it'd be a bit like waiting for a glacier to rush past..........

Bearing in mind the costs involved I'd still try and find a BMC kit..... but I'll cast my eye around for bits to help out. I know I saw something in an advert in http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/ that may be of help. Will see what I find when I'm back up in Inverness

Yeah, but figured I'd give him one more chance

BMC is looking like my fall back the now. Just priced up the kit I was going to get with silicone hosing from Forge Motorsport and it's brought the cost down to under £110. May well go for that, but can't afford it till Christmas probably anyway - too many outgoings

Check the negative feedback for that guy; there seems to be a lot of "bought this <item> doenst fit like described" kind of bad feedback. There could just a be a lot of tards of course, but I dont see as much negative feedback on the other kits.

Yeah, notice that a lot on many automotive accessory people's feedback pages. I reckon it all hinges on how they respond to that criticism really. If they ignore it or come across as abrupt to what's been said, it may something about their customer service.

As I said though, the kit looks better than the K&N but then what wouldn't?

 

[Fasckira]

I bought that Aprio kit linked (in blue); because of the way the engine bay is laid out, I cant fit it the way it recommends (ie, cone straight over the carburetor then attach the cold air feed) so I have to fit the cold air feed pipe over the carburetor then attach the cone to that.
However the cold air feed tube, which according to the site is aluminum, is actually plastic so I'd need to perform some magical system to stop the plastic touching the engine if I went ahead with it.

I think Im just going to have to email the seller and get him to send me the correct tube and wait for now as I also have to order a breather filter anyway. Always seems to be things never quite go the way you want them to.

 

[Eklipze3k]

Always seems to be things never quite go the way you want them to.

They do if you make it yourself

 

[Fasckira]

Bloomin 'eck, that looks awesome dude

 

[muppet42]

I bought that Aprio kit linked (in blue); because of the way the engine bay is laid out, I cant fit it the way it recommends (ie, cone straight over the carburetor then attach the cold air feed) so I have to fit the cold air feed pipe over the carburetor then attach the cone to that.
However the cold air feed tube, which according to the site is aluminum, is actually plastic so I'd need to perform some magical system to stop the plastic touching the engine if I went ahead with it.

I think Im just going to have to email the seller and get him to send me the correct tube and wait for now as I also have to order a breather filter anyway. Always seems to be things never quite go the way you want them to.

The detail issue was the one thing stopping me from getting an Apiro kit as I wasn't sure about fitting a "universal" kit to the Stilo. However, given the reviews of the BMC I was considering it anyway.

Currently I'm holding out for a GSR as I can get it for under £160 with discount. Trouble is I think Peter is out playing Scrabble with Lord Lucan and Shergar most of the time as he hasn't even bothered looking at the order PM I sent on Performance Fiat 2 weeks ago nor the email I sent a week before that. Haven't even paid for the thing and I'm already having customer service issues

Have looked into building my own and may reconsider it as an option, but for me it could end up working out more expensive than getting a GSR

Hope you manage to get the situation sorted with your kit though.

 

[steve119]

Only way to get ur order through is to phone, phone, and phone again!

 

[muppet42]

Only way to get ur order through is to phone, phone, and phone again!

Yeah, seems that way. Don't see the point in him having a PM/email thing set up with details to be sent of orders when he's not going to bother his arse replying to anything ever. I reckon he's maybe some kind of technophobe or something

 

[ycming]

My choice would be GSR or the one on ebay that u said:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360203242144&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Enclosed filter would be the best! keeping the warm air away completely!

Wouldn't build your own. You need to be clear if you performance or just the noise! I mean if all you wanted is more noise just drill some holes in the air box ....... If you want performance gains then best to stick with something known and take the price hit!

Probably best would be GSR with the BMC filter

Ming