Technical Headlight switch failures??

[petel]

Many thanks to Alan and Jon.

The possibility of an earthing problem being the cause of these failures, is the reason that I requested ( after my reply to Pandaki ) in post 9 of this thread, if forum members could advise of any switch failures on the post 92 cars with SPI.

However, as only Jon has responded to this ( Alans cars being pre 92 ) there is not enough information to draw a conclusion.

I am still suspicious of the switch itself as a possible cause. I know the internal working of the unit and can see a way in which the switch, when on main lights, with all four terminals connected, could overheat due to the surface contact of the spring links. At this time, I have no way of proving my theory one way or the other.

Further relevent comment invited.
Rgds.

 

[lightweightmick]

I have come to suspect the 'amp' tags or 'spade connectors' that Fiat employ. IMO they don't make a good enough contact and this could be the source of the heat that then gets transferred to the sw contacts thus compounding the problem re. restistance and heat build up - same reason for faulty earths and `cooking` headlamp connectors - I have had much experience with this problem on the Ducato and if an amptag overheats on a regular basis it becomes virtually useless. As the vehicle gets older the problems of bad earths/contacts etc get worse

However the light sw. is iffy on the CLX but this problem is more down to sw manufacture as it doesn't click into place properly.

Fan blower sw also don't work on 2nd (fast) setting - stripped it down - was okay for a while - the brass contact of the sw seemed to be below the level of the plastic body thus preventing a good contact - only works now if held of with an elastic band around it! :slayer:

Next time I do this I'll take more note.

 

[Formula 91]

The possibility of an earthing problem being the cause of these failures,

Pete, I think this is highly likely. I haven't had my Panda ('91 Carb) long enough to comment on its switch, but I have experienced head light switch failures on a '76 Mini I once had and my '02 Land Rover. The failure modes were exactly the same. Both used relay-less 'high current' switches and both had bad earths at the lights causing extra resistance which in turn caused the switch to melt.

I am about to replace my bulbs for 55/60w ones and will be running them from seperate relays, however I will be making sure the earths are sound first

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Slight revival.

I've discovered that its both the dipped headlights and the mainbeams that will cause the switch burning out problems. I've discovered this through relaying the dipped beam, but not main, in this thread https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/157313-bright-idea-2.html?p=2037821

So in the event of a switch buring out and cleaning the earthing hedgehogs and connectors not helping, relaying the dipped and main beam into each headlight (4 relays) seperatly is to only option left to release the origional wiring of any build up of resistance due to condution braking down in old wiring.

Jon.

 

[james2609]

Slight revival.

I've discovered that its both the dipped headlights and the mainbeams that will cause the switch burning out problems. I've discovered this through relaying the dipped beam, but not main, in this thread https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/157313-bright-idea-2.html?p=2037821

So in the event of a switch buring out and cleaning the earthing hedgehogs and connectors not helping, relaying the dipped and main beam into each headlight (4 relays) seperatly is to only option left to release the origional wiring of any build up of resistance due to condution braking down in old wiring.

Jon.

I now know where to come if this happens to me!!

 

[Puchman4x4]

Sorry to reserect a long dead thread, but I do have a bit of a desperate need for my problem.

I just bought a right hand drive 1986 panda 4x4 from the South of France, and on the long drive back up to the Alpes, realised there wasn't something quite right with my headlights. In position 1, the side light position, they seem to exhibit qualities of an extremely dull dipped beam, lighting up very little of the road. In position 2 they revert back to side light only, with no road illumination.
Full beam only works in position 2, so I ended up dazzling everyone from Grenoble to Meribel! There was a smell of burning plastic which seems to fit in well with this thread.

So my long winded question, is, has anyone had the same problem (obviously they have) and how the hell do I get my dipped beams to work again? Fuses are ok, but relays not yet checked. Any help much appreciated.
Cheers.

 

[panda1408]

The side light position is working fine, cars in the 80s had dimdip, which is as you describe, it was so you didn't need to have full dip beams on when on lit roads. You will see the resistor on the drivers side suspenion tower.

Take the switch out and see if any of the contacts are burnt or melted. Before fitting a new one clean up all the earths on the inner wings.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The side light position is working fine, cars in the 80s had dimdip, which is as you describe, it was so you didn't need to have full dip beams on when on lit roads. You will see the resistor on the drivers side suspenion tower.

Take the switch out and see if any of the contacts are burnt or melted. Before fitting a new one clean up all the earths on the inner wings.

:yeahthat: if it happens again you'll need to relay your headlamp units (easier than rewiring the existing loom).

 

[Puchman4x4]

Ok guys, thanks for your help so far but a new problem has reared it's head.
While driving today through fog (with limited lights) I smelt the burning again and saw smoke coming from the steering column! Pulling over I could feel a couple of small screw's back there (behind the switches on the column) that were extremely hot, hot enough to melt the plastic shroud covering the rest of the column. The up shot of this is I now don't have full beams either! I've pulled the switches off the column but am wary of digging deeper.
Oh yea, the last owner had his mot recently and they put 55W lamps in cause the old ones were too dull. Could this be the cause? (Have pulled these bulbs and replaced with 40w but lack of dipped and full beams still exists). Would previous posters answer still apply?

Thanks again guys.

 

[panda1408]

Replace the swtiches and clean up the earths, now you have the correct bulbs in it shouldn't melt the switches again, although it seems that it can still happen, not had it happen to me though so far.

Seems like there has always been a problem if the lights were too dull for the MOT, why anyone would just fit higher wattage bulbs instead of sorting it properly I don't know, it will only make things worse as we can see!

 

[Puchman4x4]

Sorry to be a complete retard, but regarding the replacement of the switches. How hard is it? Do I have to replace the whole unit on the steering column or pull it apart an replace the switches inside. I'm a complete idiot when it comes to this stuff so bear with me. Cheers again.

 

[panda1408]

You could probably replace the actualy switch part, but it is much easier to replace the whole column stalk assembly.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Seems like there has always been a problem if the lights were too dull for the MOT, why anyone would just fit higher wattage bulbs instead of sorting it properly I don't know, it will only make things worse as we can see!

Fit brighter bulbs to be able to see better. The old 40/45watt units are outdated IMO. I don't have issues with the 55/60watt units myself.

 

[panda1408]

I was saying that if the lights were too dull to pass an MOT then fitting higher wattage bulbs seems a silly thing to do when there is obviously a problem, as the original bulbs should not need to be upgraded to pass an MOT!

Nothing wrong with upgrading the lights as long as the wiring can take it, always best to fit relays if you are though. Anyway if you think Panda headlights are bad, you should try the sealed beams in my Land Rover! The Panda is like driving in daylight compared!

 

[VmanC]

I agree, only upgrade the bulbs if you fit relays too.

The steering column switches are all one unit and have to be renewed as such. The headlamp switch in the dash can be replaced using just a + head screwdriver. First remove the front of the instrument console, then you can unscrew the switches as one unit and prise out the headlamp switch from this.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I agree, only upgrade the bulbs if you fit relays too.

The lighting circuit is already relayed, only need to add additional relays if there is an issue with the existing wiring quality.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I was saying that if the lights were too dull to pass an MOT then fitting higher wattage bulbs seems a silly thing to do when there is obviously a problem, as the original bulbs should not need to be upgraded to pass an MOT!

Indeed. I didn't realise the original had been upgraded due to an MOT failure.

 

[panda1408]

The lighting circuit is already relayed, only need to add additional relays if there is an issue with the existing wiring quality.

The existing wiring is only just able to cope with the original bulbs though so a second set of relays with a feed direct from the battery is needed really.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The existing wiring is only just able to cope with the original bulbs though so a second set of relays with a feed direct from the battery is needed really.

Only if the wiring is USed. This is what I'm saying, if the wiring hasn't deteriorated then it is more than adequate for both 40/45 or 55/60 watt bulbs. If it's started to deteriorate though then it won't be unto the job.

Not all Panda's have deteriorated wiring, just like not all of them have rust

 

[firstcar-Y10]

Only if the wiring is USed. This is what I'm saying, if the wiring hasn't deteriorated then it is more than adequate for both 40/45 or 55/60 watt bulbs. If it's started to deteriorate though then it won't be unto the job.

Not all Panda's have deteriorated wiring, just like not all of them have rust

although if dealing with a car with dim lights and melty switches it's probably better to assume the wiring is getting past its best.