Introduction
This is Fizzle my 1994 Fizz
Panda (Classic) Fizzle :)
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Bartpanda
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I also used old chisel with rounded edge and poked it with hammer to unscrew pump/sender unit big plastic ring. In thema panda regata and friends uno turbo tanks. No damage to the ring so far 
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Well sunny day (though just above freezing) and I got it into my head that I needed to at least try to put the new fuel pump on fizzle.
The top of the pump unit which was swimming with fuel had dried off, on starting up I could see that the leak was from the left hand flow pipe.
I suspect thats because the captive bolt has rusted, split the plastic and is not holding the fuel lines in place sufficiently.
Breaking off the rest of the plastic allowed me to move the pipes out of the way, usung the 3 screwdrivers method I took the sender unit out.
After a lot of faffing about I managed to get the three legged wrench onto the top of the large plastic ring nut and managed to remove it!
The old captive bolts nut sheared when trying to remove it, luckily the first nut I found waas the right size.
I refitted everything and turned the key only to find the battery hadn't enough juice to keep going until the engine refuelled.
So the chargers on until I finish work tomorrow afternoon!
Still need to look at why the pressure is building up so much in the tank but at least if the fuels not piddling out I can drive it to get looked at.
The top of the pump unit which was swimming with fuel had dried off, on starting up I could see that the leak was from the left hand flow pipe.
I suspect thats because the captive bolt has rusted, split the plastic and is not holding the fuel lines in place sufficiently.
Breaking off the rest of the plastic allowed me to move the pipes out of the way, usung the 3 screwdrivers method I took the sender unit out.
After a lot of faffing about I managed to get the three legged wrench onto the top of the large plastic ring nut and managed to remove it!
The old captive bolts nut sheared when trying to remove it, luckily the first nut I found waas the right size.
I refitted everything and turned the key only to find the battery hadn't enough juice to keep going until the engine refuelled.
So the chargers on until I finish work tomorrow afternoon!
Still need to look at why the pressure is building up so much in the tank but at least if the fuels not piddling out I can drive it to get looked at.
if the pressure is building up loads it could mean that your Evap solenoid has locked up.
the evap system bleeds off the pressure in the tank into the throttle body of the engine when the ignition is turned on or the engine is running.
pressure in the fuel tank is not really that bad of a thing if you ask me. i see a tank with a bit of pressure helping force fuel into the injector hehe
the evap system bleeds off the pressure in the tank into the throttle body of the engine when the ignition is turned on or the engine is running.
pressure in the fuel tank is not really that bad of a thing if you ask me. i see a tank with a bit of pressure helping force fuel into the injector hehe
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Well with everything reassembled and fitted the car starts then dies - especially if you touch the accelerator.
No leaks from the pump assembly though.
I thought once the fuel got to the engine it would be ok but obviously not.
Gone from being happy that I managed to do the job to fed up that it now won't run.
I can't see anything in the manual about bleeding the fuel system of air or how to do it.
At least before it ran now it don't
****ed off
No leaks from the pump assembly though.
I thought once the fuel got to the engine it would be ok but obviously not.
Gone from being happy that I managed to do the job to fed up that it now won't run.
I can't see anything in the manual about bleeding the fuel system of air or how to do it.
At least before it ran now it don't
****ed off
Can you hear the pump prime when you turn the ignition on? Are you sure the pipes are on correctly, could have the return connected to the feed? Pump wiring could also be backwards, or maybe a kinked pipe?
You don't usually need to bleed a petrol engine, more of a diesel thing although it is possible to get an air lock. If you remove the feed pipe at the engine end and cycle the ignition you should get fuel there and that will also clear any air locks in the pipe.
You don't usually need to bleed a petrol engine, more of a diesel thing although it is possible to get an air lock. If you remove the feed pipe at the engine end and cycle the ignition you should get fuel there and that will also clear any air locks in the pipe.
Not sure of the setup (i'm guessing identical to cinqs though), but i defo think something is on backwards too, most likely the pipes and it's sending fuel up what should be the return line, basically running the system backwards (if that makes sense?) so that the system "works" initially when started but the second it needs more juice, it starves the injector.
either swap the lines over and see what happens (if the pump is priming). or check the throttle body when the pump primes to see if fuel is trickling out the injector.
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Thanks guys, the pump was swapped like for like and flow lines are as they were, there is only just enough slack to fit them in th correct position, swapping them around would need new pipe fitting.
Can here the pump working.
Wiring is connector which only fits one way also though I could swap it around using a terminal block.
If I can figure out what and where the throttle body and where the fuel pipe goes into I'll check flow there.
Bloody hate doing this stuff it never is straight forward
Can here the pump working.
Wiring is connector which only fits one way also though I could swap it around using a terminal block.
If I can figure out what and where the throttle body and where the fuel pipe goes into I'll check flow there.
Bloody hate doing this stuff it never is straight forward
Is the pump a genuine one or aftermarket? If it is aftermarket I would not be surprised if the outlets were the wrong way round or something silly.
Definitely worth disconnecting at the engine end, if you have pressurised fuel there you know the pump is working as it should and the problem is the engine/fuel injection.
Definitely worth disconnecting at the engine end, if you have pressurised fuel there you know the pump is working as it should and the problem is the engine/fuel injection.
Out of interest, does the pump have a mesh filter on it like the cinq ones? they can get blocked and cause delivery issues too.
Fuel feed line should be easy enough to locate, there's a guide in the cinq/sei guides about the TB pipes, it will tell you what pipe it is
https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento-guides/146381-spi-throttle-body-where-pipes-go.html
Number 6 on there Basically the top one at the back closest to the actual injector.
If all else fails, swap the old pump into the new unit. It's a bit of a faff but what us 16v cento guys do when we need to upgrade for a stronger pump rather than the whole unit, just takes patience and a lot of wiggling!
Fuel feed line should be easy enough to locate, there's a guide in the cinq/sei guides about the TB pipes, it will tell you what pipe it is
https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento-guides/146381-spi-throttle-body-where-pipes-go.html
Number 6 on there
Basically the top one at the back closest to the actual injector.If all else fails, swap the old pump into the new unit. It's a bit of a faff but what us 16v cento guys do when we need to upgrade for a stronger pump rather than the whole unit, just takes patience and a lot of wiggling!
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I suspect it's a pattern part, I've had a look in the workshop manual and will try taking off the fuel flow and return lines tomorrow after work. the car started and ran perfectly before the pump was changed so I'm hoping it's air in the system.
It won't be air IMO. Just prime the pump 2 or 3 times without starting and it bleeds itself out the injector.
Think i'd be tempted to put the old pump in the new unit if it's known good.
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If the new pump is faulty or not the same spec as the old it will be returned to the supplier. I have an offer of a second hand unit if needs be.
strange one that john.. the issues i have had were caused by the pump being fit the wrong way around.. which you cant do as its in tank.
the wiring not being the correct way around.
im pretty sure that the fuel lines are different sizes so i dont think they could be crossed.
so it starts and idles fine.. that does sound like not enough fuel pressure.
all the air should be primed out of it if the engine is running. if you had air lock the engine would not run at all.
the pump only needs to push through 10 psi for this injector so it should not be too heavy.
as folk have said, take your air box off and stick the pipes in a jug or something then turn the ignition on, see if you get a good flow of fuel coming out of the line.
you cant miss the fuel pipes. they are quite thick.
the wiring not being the correct way around.
im pretty sure that the fuel lines are different sizes so i dont think they could be crossed.
so it starts and idles fine.. that does sound like not enough fuel pressure.
all the air should be primed out of it if the engine is running. if you had air lock the engine would not run at all.
the pump only needs to push through 10 psi for this injector so it should not be too heavy.
as folk have said, take your air box off and stick the pipes in a jug or something then turn the ignition on, see if you get a good flow of fuel coming out of the line.
you cant miss the fuel pipes. they are quite thick.
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Rain and lack of daylight has put paid to any more faffing around with this and I'd prefer to have an extra set of hands to turn the ignition on/off so the engine bay doesn't end up covered in petrol.
So near yet so far!
So near yet so far!
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Flow and return lines are operating correctly.
Car starts then instantly dies.
stupid stupid car
Car starts then instantly dies.
stupid stupid car
John sorry for daft question, but what was the original fault which made you changing fuel pump?
Ps.
Have you got strobe timing lamp or in-line HT sprk tester?
Ps.
Have you got strobe timing lamp or in-line HT sprk tester?
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Leaking due to the captive bolt failing which holds the flow and return connectors into the unit.
The pump worked ok just the leaking.
No HT or strobe. They were changed last year as it was missing occasionally.
I can't see how to change the new assembly top plate over to the old pump because of the crimped lines under neath it, it's plastic so would probably snap.
Anyway I also don't want to disturb the pump again as it is fitted and not leaking.
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Sounds like the wrong or faulty pump tbh.
Will need to come out again i'm afraid. If the car isn't working with it and that's all that's changed, that's the fault!
You don't swap the top plates over, you swap the actual pumps.
The assembly is just basically a cage for the pump itself so treat it as such. All it does is hold the pump on place really. At the bottom you should see the pump itself little gold cylinder with 2 pipes coming out of it, whole thing is wrapped in a rubber blanket wedged hard into the bottom of the assembly. basically unplug it (note what way round the plug goes so when you fit the other pump, it goes in the same way!), undo the 2 pipes coming off it and pull the pump out the assembly. It's fiddly but all makes sense when it's in front of you!
Will need to come out again i'm afraid. If the car isn't working with it and that's all that's changed, that's the fault!
You don't swap the top plates over, you swap the actual pumps.
The assembly is just basically a cage for the pump itself so treat it as such. All it does is hold the pump on place really. At the bottom you should see the pump itself little gold cylinder with 2 pipes coming out of it, whole thing is wrapped in a rubber blanket wedged hard into the bottom of the assembly. basically unplug it (note what way round the plug goes so when you fit the other pump, it goes in the same way!), undo the 2 pipes coming off it and pull the pump out the assembly. It's fiddly but all makes sense when it's in front of you!
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Well I had a brainwave and bought some stainless steel nuts and bolts.
I melted a hole with a soldering iron through where the captive bolt had broken its mounting and fitted a new bolt.
I removed the new pump assembly and put the old back in (twice as the first bolt was too short and couldn't be tightened up :bang.
The pump worked, started the engine twice then the engine stopped.
There wasn't much petrol left in the tank (I'm sure it was half full and has evaporated) so I put 5 litres in and he lives! I took Fizzle down the garage and filled him up - only to notice a trail of dripping petrol from the rear of the car.
After much faffing about with adding and subtracting bolts and washers I realise that the leak is from the poorly fitting o ring on the pump connector - I bought a multipack set from screwfix but they aren't thick enough diameter to provide an effective seal. When the connector is angled forward the leak abates so for now a bit of packing under the flow/return lines is keeping the worst at bay until some fatter o rings can be found.
I suspect the other pump didn't work as it was starved of fuel being sat higher in the tank than the original - though I can't prove this without putting it back in again - but I'll keep it as a spare anyway.
In more pleasurable news Fizzle got the long awaited seat upgrade - velour Alfa Sud ones at that - pictures tomorrow as ran out of light today to do interior shots. They certainly provide more support though they do squeeze my love handles a bit
It feels very good to make some progress and have a drive of my favourite car again even though there's a bit more work to be done before he's 100%
I melted a hole with a soldering iron through where the captive bolt had broken its mounting and fitted a new bolt.
I removed the new pump assembly and put the old back in (twice as the first bolt was too short and couldn't be tightened up :bang
.The pump worked, started the engine twice then the engine stopped.
There wasn't much petrol left in the tank (I'm sure it was half full and has evaporated) so I put 5 litres in and he lives! I took Fizzle down the garage and filled him up - only to notice a trail of dripping petrol from the rear of the car.
After much faffing about with adding and subtracting bolts and washers I realise that the leak is from the poorly fitting o ring on the pump connector - I bought a multipack set from screwfix but they aren't thick enough diameter to provide an effective seal. When the connector is angled forward the leak abates so for now a bit of packing under the flow/return lines is keeping the worst at bay until some fatter o rings can be found.
I suspect the other pump didn't work as it was starved of fuel being sat higher in the tank than the original - though I can't prove this without putting it back in again - but I'll keep it as a spare anyway.
In more pleasurable news Fizzle got the long awaited seat upgrade - velour Alfa Sud ones at that - pictures tomorrow as ran out of light today to do interior shots. They certainly provide more support though they do squeeze my love handles a bit
It feels very good to make some progress and have a drive of my favourite car again even though there's a bit more work to be done before he's 100%
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hmm those horrid quick release fuel connectors? yeah ive had problems with them in the past.. to be honest. i am using hoses with jubilee clips on Fallout and Talon with no issues. not sure if you could do the same?
