Technical Exhaust conundrum

[eddyweird]

Hi all, I own a 2011 1.2 69hp active and looking to replace the mid section and rear exhaust box.
Like most things when googled I have found it a complete minefield with all the different information surrounding this year.
I'm still confused hence the questions to the more knowledgeable members, that's most of you.

1. Is this year different from e.g an 09 1.2 60hp both for the mid and rear exhaust as I have seen sellers quoting there is a difference and some not?
2. Is mid and rear exhaust sections the same for the early fiat 500 or the even the ford Ka as I have seen the oem numbers quoted for these models?

At the moment I am thinking buy from a motor factors as you can take it back, the internet offers best prices but get it wrong and the returns are a pain, we have all been there.

Advice and thoughts please.

 

[koalar]

The short answer is I don't know if an earlier exhaust fits


Euro 5 engines mid section had a different parts number and that's the same as some 500 but not all, be carful here later cars have a different flange on the manifold


The rear rear back box is common for a lot of the Fiat range


Can you fit an earlier exhaust, probably, I don't know until someone tries it,

 

[jrkitching]

I have a 60HP Panda and a 69HP 500, both from 2010.

The exhausts look similar but are in fact completely different; the 500 uses slightly larger diameter tubing throughout, so none of the pipes, silencers, brackets or clamps are interchangeable.

I'd be surprised if any of the exhaust components for the 60HP Panda (up to mid 2010) are usable on a 69HP Panda.

It's possible that 500/Ka parts might fit.

 

[koalar]

Bosal catalogue shows a different cat and mid but same back for the 60 and 69hp


They wouldn't produce two unless it was needed

 

[eddyweird]

Good reference Koalar. Note how the exhaust clamps on Sys01714 are the same either end but differ on sys
13554?
Probably different pipe diameters as mentioned in jrk reply.

 

[jrkitching]

Note how the exhaust clamps on Sys01714 are the same either end but differ on sys
13554

Most aftermarket systems use standard U clamps to join the sections. You can buy them in Halfords for a couple of pounds.

OEM exhausts have the clamp integral with the sections, but by the time the need to replace comes around, they're usually so rusty there's little left of them. By then it's not an issue since the sections will have corroded together and won't be separating even without the clamps. Some MOT testers can be pedantic, so some may choose to put a standard U clamp on if this happens and the system is otherwise sound,

The front bracket which attaches at the bellhousing is critical; if this rusts away, the weight of the exhaust hanging on the manicat can crack it at the manifold; that's both expensive and awkward to fix, so keep an eye on this fitting and replace if it looks weakened. They're readily available and fit quite a few Fiats & Alfa's, though annoyingly not the 60HP Panda (it's that smaller diameter pipe again).

When I did mine the 60HP version of this bracket was unobtainable in the UK, so I had no choice but to modify and shim out the 69HP version.

Another thing to bear in mind is that on an older vehicle, the exhaust you're replacing may not be the original and may not even be the right one for the car!

 

[irc]

Did anyone ever find a part number for the 60hp support clamp?
I found 51816520 for the 69hp, but the only parts diagrams I have for 60hp Pandas show this as an integral part of the front pipe.
Some do show it as integral for the 69hp too, so maybe there's a number out there somewhere.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I bought a system from Ebay for our 2011 69HP car last year. They listed same system for the 60 and 69. They are different however. For certain, the front pipe is a larger diameter on the 69hp car. The supplied system did not fit. I was lucky a local firm stretched the end so it would fit but this was not a perfect solution. I had to use two clamps to get it to hold so I think the system will not last as long as it should. I think from memory the 69 had a 54mm clamp and the system used a 48mm pipe. My advice is check the size of your front pipe before ordering. Although once adjusted it all worked, I felt we lost some power from having the smaller pipe. I suggest you google and then contact OnlineAautomotive (Northampton I think) they seem to be helpful and knowledegable. They managed to find me a Panda 100 exhaust a few years back when noone else did them. Their prices seem fair.

 

[Shuggie]

My 2009 Panda 1.2 60bhp has its original exhaust system, which is starting to blow somewhere along the back box section, which is quite rusty. So, a new exhaust system is warranted.

The front catalyst welded downpipe bracket is almost rusted away, and last year I did buy a new bracket 51816520 but of course it's 50mm internal diameter and my car has the smaller size 45mm exhaust pipe. So, I got a local metalworking shop to cut down the 50mm bracket and re-weld it, invisibly, for just £30. So, when a new exhaust is fitted, and after grinding away the rusty remains of the old welded bracket, this modified front bracket should fit easily.

Does anyone have any advice or recommendations for good quality, preferably OEM quality, exhaust parts? There's loads of choice online of centre section pipe and rear box, mostly at very modest cost, but I'm keen to avoid rubbish parts. So which brands are worth buying, and which should be avoided? I'd rather buy quality, once.

 

[jrkitching]

My 2009 Panda 1.2 60bhp has its original exhaust system

Didn't it do well! My 2010 needed replacing 18 months ago; but then again, it had done over 110k.

The quality of the OEM exhaust is rather good. I'm not sure if they're even available anymore, but the best place to try would be Shop for Parts, which do list them from time to time; not exactly cheap, but cheaper than franchised dealers.

I understand your dilemma; most of what's out there is utter rubbish; 18 months ago ECP sold me a backbox with a button sized hole in it; they'd burnt right through the shell where the rear hangers were fitted during manufacture. And it's definitely not as quiet as the OEM system, though it's by no means objectionable. But I needed something then for an impending MOT, and the parts supply situation was dire.

But - here's the thing - how long are you going to keep the car? If you give it a spray with heat resisting aluminium paint and rub copper grease into all the seams, even a cheapie will likely be good for 4-5 years.

If you're keeping the car forever, then a custom made stainless system will outlast the car, but I'd find it hard to justify that sort of expense on a 16 yr old Panda.

And for that critical bracket, 51816520 can be used without resorting to welding if you put a shim strip inside it and elongate the bolt holes. The photo below shows a shimmed 51816520 in situ on a 2010 1.2 Panda.

 

[koalar]

In 2017 I put on

Back box £19.95 + VAT from CES
Centre pipe £26 inc from General Traffic.

Both lasted well, sounded fine

No idea what brand they were, they are both motor factor near me that supply to local garages, so don't supply total rubbish

,

 

[koalar]

Didn't it do well! My 2010 needed replacing 18 months ago; but then again, it had done over 110k.

The quality of the OEM exhaust is rather good. I'm not sure if they're even available anymore, but the best place to try would be Shop for Parts, which do list them from time to time; not exactly cheap, but cheaper than franchised dealers.

I understand your dilemma; most of what's out there is utter rubbish; 18 months ago ECP sold me a backbox with a button sized hole in it; they'd burnt right through the shell where the rear hangers were fitted during manufacture. And it's definitely not as quiet as the OEM system, though it's by no means objectionable. But I needed something then for an impending MOT, and the parts supply situation was dire.

But - here's the thing - how long are you going to keep the car? If you give it a spray with heat resisting aluminium paint and rub copper grease into all the seams, even a cheapie will likely be good for 4-5 years.

If you're keeping the car forever, then a custom made stainless system will outlast the car, but I'd find it hard to justify that sort of expense on a 16 yr old Panda.

And for that critical bracket, 51816520 can be used without resorting to welding if you put a shim strip inside it and elongate the bolt holes.

Correct original fitted exhaust
Bends are more accurate
Double skinned to help reduce noise
Lasts 10+ years

It's not 100% guaranteed that if you even went the OEM it would be the same

 

[irc]

I've changed a couple of Panda exhausts since Covid and had different quality problems with both.
The one which seemed better build quality didn't fit properly and still gives the occasional rattle as it makes contact with something underneath (despite being refitted twice and "adjusted" to give more clearance). However, it still looks brand new after nearly 2 years.
The one which felt cheaper actually fitted better, but the back box has already got rust scabs along the seams, and the flexi is looking a bit frilly after only about 18 months.
Neither was as quiet as original exhaust.

 

[Shuggie]

Didn't it do well! My 2010 needed replacing 18 months ago; but then again, it had done over 110k.

My car had done very few miles for at least 4 years before I bought it a couple of years ago, so maybe that's why the original exhaust has not fallen apart. I've put around 14k miles on it since

 

[Shuggie]

My car's welded front downpipe support bracket is far more precarious that I thought, which adds a bit of urgency to the exhaust replacement question. So I just ordered a complete set of new exhaust components (less the cat, obv) from Online Automotive. Not quite the cheapest, but fair value, I hope!

 

[DaveMcT]

I did not have time to wait for a Fiat from support clamp. I had not bought one because it was so rusted I'd no realised what it was. The stainless pipe quickly destroys the carbon steel clamp. I made a bracket from steel strip and an ordinary exhaust clamp. The clamp rusted pretty fast but did the job until I replaced it with a stainless clamp and bracket.