Yeah I know what you mean. I've been driving nearly 40 years and it was bloody embarrassing when trying to do a quick launch. It was GT Motorsport based in Stoke on Trent who did the remap. Was recommended by a local fiat specialist in Longton, CD Motors.Good result, what's the name of the remap company.
After owning mine for a good six months I still kangaroo or over rev, wouldn't mind so much if I was a new driver but I passed when I was 18 and I'm now 56
Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
- Thread starter auditt
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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
Ah cheers for that, it's a bit far away from me being down near Brighton but I will email them to see if they have links anywhere closer, or tips for a local remapping company on what they did to remove the awful system in place now.
I'm not sure what they actually did in the remap but I think he did mention something about tweaking the fueling and timing, I also notice it does seem to idle (tick over) smoother than before. Previously there was also an annoying flutter whenever you were coasting down a road and just feathering the throttle - a bit like a slight hesitation and jerkyness until you used a bit more throttle but since the remap I've not noticed it. The fiat specialist who recommended the remap firm did say that you can usually get these motors to behave a bit better by doing an ecu reset then drive it like you stole it for a while and the parameters will re-adapt to your driving style.
Mmm interesting, mine sometimes bounces slightly low on tickover as if the stop start is still activated.
I'm down at Devil developments in Littlehampton in April on a rolling road run so I will have a chat and see what they say.
BenwayRGC
New member
Hi. New member here.
I just read the entire thread... took a while... very informative.
I wish I'd read it before buying a 2nd hand, low mileage, 17 plate Panda Easy with the 1.2 Euro 6 engine... without test driving it first. Doh!
After spending 8 years driving a 1.1 Panda Active, I thought I knew what I was getting. Obvious schoolboy error.
To be fair, the lack of power at low revs didn't surprise me too much. After owning the 1.1 Active, and a 900cc Seicento before that, I'm used to having to drive higher in the rev range than your typical car. The lag between input and response disappointed, but didn't entirely surprise me. 'Drive by wire' is so much less satisfying than a direct connection to the engine, but it is what it is.
What caught me out was the unpredictable rev flaring.
After reading the thread here, I'd got my head around the car raising the revs as I slowly lift the clutch pedal, with no extra input from me. So I kept my eye on what it was doing as I drove, to try and figure the unpredictable rev flaring... coz it doesn't always do it.
I went out in the middle of the night and practiced some hill starts. Plenty of hills around here. No issue... clean starts.
I got used to pulling away slowly at low revs, while only using the clutch. I was actually shocked that on one occasion, I was able to reverse out of a parking space at the supermarket, using only the clutch... *while the handbrake was still on*... I only realised when the car started beeping at me like a very angry thing.
I started thinking the issue had sorted itself out somehow.
Nope!
Hill start in heavy traffic, in the middle of a queue at traffic lights. I needed a slightly quicker start than using the clutch only method, as there was a clearly impatient car right up my arse, but I couldn't go too quickly, or I'd run into the car in front of me. So... I raised the revs slightly before feeding in the clutch, with the intention of controlling my speed with the clutch, as opposed to the accelerator, till I was properly moving. Guess what? With the clutch raised about half way, the revs flared, I feared a sudden burst of speed, so eased off the gas, and the car bogged down.
Next was trying for a quick uphill entry to a roundabout, in heavy traffic. I needed to enter before the car approaching from the right entered, but not so quickly as I'd run into the back of the car that was just ahead of me. So, a bit of gas, slip the clutch..... revs flared, I panicked and eased off, and I bogged down.
Next was on a flat entry to a roundabout, as opposed to uphill. Same situation. Same result.
Now, here's where it gets interesting. Still trying to figure out what the hell was going on, I went back to these locations in the middle of the night, to see if I could recreate what had happened, to try and find a way to drive around the issue. Did the revs flare again while I practiced? No, they did not.
What I'm taking away from this is that it's not the hill start, or the attempt to get away quickly, that's causing the revs to flare. It's the hesitation. It's the need for a quick start, but not *too* quick, because of cars in front. It's not the location... it's the situation.
So... a few extra revs dialled in for speed, and a slipping clutch to maintain control and not hit the car in front.... it's putting the car into the zone where the clutch sensor automatically adds revs, and the amount of revs it adds seems to be proportional to how much gas you're giving it.
To make the situation more dramatic, the amount of power you have at your disposal when the revs stop flaring and you're fully off the clutch, is somewhat less than you had while revving and slipping the clutch... which makes the car lurch.
With this in mind, I've taken to being as decisive as possible when pulling away, and if the revs do flare, not easing off the gas, but just keeping my foot in, and getting off the clutch as quickly as I can (while not hitting anything in front).
It now doesn't happen as often as it did, though it is still annoying when it does.
It seems an obvious bodge to try and fill the power hole caused by needing to conform to Euro 6 regs. So while making slow getaways smoother and easier at low revs, Fiat have created a significant issue that occurs in very specific situations. If it were a video game, and not a car, I'd say it wasn't properly playtested before release.
Years later, Fiat's solution is clear... fill that hole in the power with an electric motor, in the form of their mild hybrid. Doesn't help those of us with the Euro 6 1.2 though... coz even after all this time, the engine is still severely flawed. I'll be taking it to a Fiat 'approved' service centre soon for a service, and will have them check if it's missed any ECU updates etc... but I don't expect anything to come of it.
I just read the entire thread... took a while... very informative.
I wish I'd read it before buying a 2nd hand, low mileage, 17 plate Panda Easy with the 1.2 Euro 6 engine... without test driving it first. Doh!
After spending 8 years driving a 1.1 Panda Active, I thought I knew what I was getting. Obvious schoolboy error.
To be fair, the lack of power at low revs didn't surprise me too much. After owning the 1.1 Active, and a 900cc Seicento before that, I'm used to having to drive higher in the rev range than your typical car. The lag between input and response disappointed, but didn't entirely surprise me. 'Drive by wire' is so much less satisfying than a direct connection to the engine, but it is what it is.
What caught me out was the unpredictable rev flaring.
After reading the thread here, I'd got my head around the car raising the revs as I slowly lift the clutch pedal, with no extra input from me. So I kept my eye on what it was doing as I drove, to try and figure the unpredictable rev flaring... coz it doesn't always do it.
I went out in the middle of the night and practiced some hill starts. Plenty of hills around here. No issue... clean starts.
I got used to pulling away slowly at low revs, while only using the clutch. I was actually shocked that on one occasion, I was able to reverse out of a parking space at the supermarket, using only the clutch... *while the handbrake was still on*... I only realised when the car started beeping at me like a very angry thing.
I started thinking the issue had sorted itself out somehow.
Nope!
Hill start in heavy traffic, in the middle of a queue at traffic lights. I needed a slightly quicker start than using the clutch only method, as there was a clearly impatient car right up my arse, but I couldn't go too quickly, or I'd run into the car in front of me. So... I raised the revs slightly before feeding in the clutch, with the intention of controlling my speed with the clutch, as opposed to the accelerator, till I was properly moving. Guess what? With the clutch raised about half way, the revs flared, I feared a sudden burst of speed, so eased off the gas, and the car bogged down.
Next was trying for a quick uphill entry to a roundabout, in heavy traffic. I needed to enter before the car approaching from the right entered, but not so quickly as I'd run into the back of the car that was just ahead of me. So, a bit of gas, slip the clutch..... revs flared, I panicked and eased off, and I bogged down.
Next was on a flat entry to a roundabout, as opposed to uphill. Same situation. Same result.
Now, here's where it gets interesting. Still trying to figure out what the hell was going on, I went back to these locations in the middle of the night, to see if I could recreate what had happened, to try and find a way to drive around the issue. Did the revs flare again while I practiced? No, they did not.
What I'm taking away from this is that it's not the hill start, or the attempt to get away quickly, that's causing the revs to flare. It's the hesitation. It's the need for a quick start, but not *too* quick, because of cars in front. It's not the location... it's the situation.
So... a few extra revs dialled in for speed, and a slipping clutch to maintain control and not hit the car in front.... it's putting the car into the zone where the clutch sensor automatically adds revs, and the amount of revs it adds seems to be proportional to how much gas you're giving it.
To make the situation more dramatic, the amount of power you have at your disposal when the revs stop flaring and you're fully off the clutch, is somewhat less than you had while revving and slipping the clutch... which makes the car lurch.
With this in mind, I've taken to being as decisive as possible when pulling away, and if the revs do flare, not easing off the gas, but just keeping my foot in, and getting off the clutch as quickly as I can (while not hitting anything in front).
It now doesn't happen as often as it did, though it is still annoying when it does.
It seems an obvious bodge to try and fill the power hole caused by needing to conform to Euro 6 regs. So while making slow getaways smoother and easier at low revs, Fiat have created a significant issue that occurs in very specific situations. If it were a video game, and not a car, I'd say it wasn't properly playtested before release.
Years later, Fiat's solution is clear... fill that hole in the power with an electric motor, in the form of their mild hybrid. Doesn't help those of us with the Euro 6 1.2 though... coz even after all this time, the engine is still severely flawed. I'll be taking it to a Fiat 'approved' service centre soon for a service, and will have them check if it's missed any ECU updates etc... but I don't expect anything to come of it.
That's the best thing. They've had longer to map it properly now, so
That was my thought.. there may be a "the latest FIAT ECU map" that you might benefit from.
I don't know whether some industrious after-market tuning firm provides a better map, if "the latest FIAT ECU map" doesn't improve things.
Ralf S.
That was my thought.. there may be a "the latest FIAT ECU map" that you might benefit from.
I don't know whether some industrious after-market tuning firm provides a better map, if "the latest FIAT ECU map" doesn't improve things.
Ralf S.
Some have addressed this issue by disabling the relevant clutch position sensor; you need to physically move it & secure it out of the way whilst leaving the wiring connected. If the wiring doesn't remain connected, it'll flag as an error.
BenwayRGC
New member
Thanks. Yes, I've literally read this entire thread from start to finish, so have seen those reports. I had a look down in my footwell and think I'll have to speak to the service centre about that. I can't see/reach well enough XD
This is an interesting thread. It appears that my other Fiat model, Linea, has the very same feature of sluggish throttle response. It's very noticeable when the engine's not reached the operating temperature. I used to think of it as a fault, but now it is more like a feature. The throttle is commanded by the ECU, and it does not give full control of the throttle before the engine is completely warmed up. So once I learned that, I adjusted the way I drive and it's not an issue anymore.
I just start applying more and more throttle gradually and then slowly releasing the clutch pedal. It just works everytime. On top of that the accelerator pedal is adapted to the driver's style, so it may just cancel the pedal input if you have a heavy foot. So the accelerator does not directly correspond to the throttle position. It could be seen as a fault, but it's the way these electric throttles seem to behave.
I just start applying more and more throttle gradually and then slowly releasing the clutch pedal. It just works everytime. On top of that the accelerator pedal is adapted to the driver's style, so it may just cancel the pedal input if you have a heavy foot. So the accelerator does not directly correspond to the throttle position. It could be seen as a fault, but it's the way these electric throttles seem to behave.
misel36
New member
Hy..i have my fiat 500S..2014..1.2..69ps..can the problem with throttle response be solved?what i must doing?????
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Hello and welcome to the forum.
Some have said there have been mapping updates provided by Fiat that go at least some way toward mitigating this. Many will have been done by now during routine servicing but it could be worth asking your local franchised dealer if there is an unapplied update available for your car - expect to be charged for this.
Some have adapted their driving style and just learned to live with it.
For a way around the issue, see this post.
Some have said there have been mapping updates provided by Fiat that go at least some way toward mitigating this. Many will have been done by now during routine servicing but it could be worth asking your local franchised dealer if there is an unapplied update available for your car - expect to be charged for this.
Some have adapted their driving style and just learned to live with it.
For a way around the issue, see this post.
decappottabile
Member
What I did on my car; I used MultiEcuScan to change the working of the City button to Sport.
There is a massive difference in throttle response when Sport is activated.
It obviously doesn't change the performance of the engine in any way. It only removes the lag when pressing the accelerator.
I have a 2016 Lounge 1.2. It's a Belgian car and it doesn't have start/stop nor hill-hold. So maybe the ECU has different software that makes this trick work.
There is a massive difference in throttle response when Sport is activated.
It obviously doesn't change the performance of the engine in any way. It only removes the lag when pressing the accelerator.
I have a 2016 Lounge 1.2. It's a Belgian car and it doesn't have start/stop nor hill-hold. So maybe the ECU has different software that makes this trick work.
misel36
New member
Is chip tuning the solution?
I've actually learnt to like the feature.
Is there hardly any lag when engine's warmed up after a drive on the highway? Then it works like it was supposed to. I suppose it could have something to do with preventing clutch abuse.
Is there hardly any lag when engine's warmed up after a drive on the highway? Then it works like it was supposed to. I suppose it could have something to do with preventing clutch abuse.
Hi, I've just purchased a fiat 500 1.2 2014. It's nearly impossible to pull off from a standing start up any incline. I have seen the watchdog prog via YouTube where the stig has tried to pull off on incline and also fails. The car has no power from biting point through till 3000 revs. Read one post that somebody went to fiat to ask for the previous ecu version software installed. Has anyone had similar and managed to overcome this issue, thanks.
Hi, I've just purchased a fiat 500 1.2 pop 2014. It's nearly impossible to pull off from a standing start up any incline. I have seen the watchdog prog via YouTube where the stig has tried to pull off on incline and also fails. The car has no power from biting point through till 3000 revs. Read one post that somebody went to fiat to ask for the previous ecu version software installed. Has anyone had similar and managed to overcome this issue, thanks.
Hi, appreciate you posted this in 2014, but ive just bought the car, did you manage to resolve the issue. ThanksRe: BBC1 Watchdog NOW!! 1.2 hill issues
My friend has this car (she is a member here so must have seen the thread) she has complained to me it seems a bit slow, but I just told her she doesn't know how to drive an 8v Italian car, e.g just rev the F out of it
It seems there is actually a fault with the car but hopefully a software will fix it.
Remember the watchdog thing was probably filmed ages ago too. My friends was registered in July 2014 though so maybe the problem has been fixed (not read the main thread on it).
Hello and welcome to the forum.
This chap hasn't logged onto the forum since 2017, so I doubt he's going to respond.
What year is your recently purchased car?
It's possible there might be a software update for it. A franchised dealer could check this for you, but I'd expect they would charge for this.
You could also try the workaround of disabling the clutch sensor.
This chap hasn't logged onto the forum since 2017, so I doubt he's going to respond.
What year is your recently purchased car?
It's possible there might be a software update for it. A franchised dealer could check this for you, but I'd expect they would charge for this.
You could also try the workaround of disabling the clutch sensor.
Hi I am guessing your car is a facelift euro 6 model ?it has been noted by other members that the euro 6 software update can and has had a detrimental effect on low speed power and driveability in some cars (but not all which i dont really understand?)!.
I believe that some members have had a software update applied that has cured there problems! not sure if its re-applying the old euro 5 protocol or a new updated package for euro 6 specs sorry i cant say!, hopefully someone who has had the same issue and solved it will jump into the thread with a more definitive answer for you!
I believe that some members have had a software update applied that has cured there problems! not sure if its re-applying the old euro 5 protocol or a new updated package for euro 6 specs sorry i cant say!, hopefully someone who has had the same issue and solved it will jump into the thread with a more definitive answer for you!
This post from earlier in the thread gives an interesting take on the situation.
It's written by someone who, like yourself, had recently bought a used car and had just found out about this issue.
In a nutshell, what they're saying is that this is just the way the car is, and the solution is to adapt your driving style.
If this doesn't work for you, you could always try the option of disabling the clutch sensor.
I remember that, back in the day, a lot of folks who had bought a new car on the strength of how their previous version of the same model performed were both surprised and disappointed.
It shows how important it is to always have an extended test drive in the specific car you're thinking of buying.
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