General engines for a panda 4x4 based kit car....

[optimusprime]

hello fiat guys/gals

I need some help...

I'm a bit of a landy man, and have built up a fun off road toy pretty much on a shoestring whilst being a student. Anway, I got the lotus 7 bug after doin a design project on the rear suspension for one in my last year of uni.

Now i have a job and a garage to play in, i'm itching to get going on a new project...and the idea in my head that wont go away is a
four wheel drive lotus 7 using fiat panda running gear...

I plan to make my own spaceframe chassis, wishbones, engine mounts, etc from scratch but use the bare bones of the 4wd running gear. Id probably need to modify driveshafts and maybe fabricate my own uprights etc but id figure that out along the way.

i know nothing about panda's yet other than they are light, pretty tough and have selectable 2/4 wheel drive.
even as i write this i realise i know less than i thought. In 2wd are they fwd or rwd? my plan for a selectable rwd for back end fun & 4wd for the track may have fallen at the first hurdle.

Is there any more powerful lumps that can be mated up to the panda gearbox? Ive done a montego 2.0td into a landy conversion before and wouldnt mind having a go making an adapter plate, but does anything like a punto or stilo lump bolt straight up?
its probably a really dumb question but ive never tinkered with a fiat before.

any help or ridicule would be greatly appreciated

 

[dave]

well the first thing you should know is that a 4x4 panda is a classic and rising in value, so dont chop up a good one

 

[Alan.D]

Second thing is the panda 4x4 box will break at anything over 100HP

 

[Chas Uno]

From what I gather, the Panda 4x4 system is fine with the standard power but is not designed to cope with much more. A high powered engine will tear the transmission and differentials apart! The Panda guys and girls will be able to tell you how much power the 4x4 system can take.

Secondly, in 2wd mode the Panda is FWD. The rear axle only comes into play when 4wd is selected and is only meant for low'ish speeds such as off roading.

And as Dave mentioned, DON'T cut up a good Panda 4x4 to do a project. They are getting rare and the Panda fans are very protective over them! A rusted to bits example might be ok to cannabalise (the Panda owners still want the rare bits though), but realistically it's not the ideal donor for a Lotus 7 replica.

Maybe one of those little 4x4 Suzuki jeep thingies might be a better option?

 

[Lesnewell]

A relatively easy conversion is to fit a Punto 1.2 lump (8V or 16V). This should bolt straight on to the gearbox. As others have mentioned the box can be a bit fragile so bolting on monster engines is not a good idea.

What do you want to do with the car? If you want the 4WD for on-road grip I don't think the Panda is a good choice. It has no centre diff so you quickly wind up the transmission on tarmac (If you have driven Series Landies you know what I mean). If you want to make an off-roader then it would probably work quite well. It would certainly raise a few eyebrows

 

[christopher watson]

I would recommend getting either a suzuki vitara engine and box, or a daihatsu sportrak engine and box, as these have gearboxes which will be able to hold the power of upto a 2000cc engine

 

[BenW]

Suzuki hayabusa engine and gearbox

Sorry, i really can't help but the hayabusas are meant to be fantastic engines

 

[Oldschool]

Second thing is the panda 4x4 box will break at anything over 100HP

Gearboxes are torque rated. If he uses a high power low torque solution it will be fine.

But the way the pwer delivery is intended is the wrong way round.

All FIRE engines would fit.

 

[optimusprime]

Many thanks for all the replies, they're most helpful. I think i'll be doing some further pondering before choosing a suitable donor.

The idea for the 4wd comes from seeing my mates Robin Hood struggle to get the power down on a track day. Selectable rwd/4wd would be cool but realistically anything thats selectable isn't goin to have a centre diff.Damit.

I'll do a bit of homework on the suzuki jimny/vitara suggestions (hayabusa is a tad too expensive) but I feel I might end up chopping up a sierra xr4x4 and forgetting about the selectable 4wd idea.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[christopher watson]

dont forget the audi quattro

 

[default_user]

Or most Subarus. The early pick-ups are ideal donors as they're worthless nowadays. I've seen a Rickman Ranger converted to 4WD this way. They're just the right size for a 7 style kit too.

 

[Plug]

If you're looking to make a trackday car, the Panda would be a bad starting point. Light, yes, but not a racer.

If you were making a trials car, probably a great base. They climb like mountain goats even in standard form. Add some more ground clearance and maybe some extra axle articulation...

For track days, the Sierra is a cheap donor car but not exactly light or famed for fabulous handling.. a good challenge to make one, but I think you'll be eaten alive by the RWD lads on the tarmac. Without the lardy Sierra bodywork pressing the wheels into the track, I think it would be an understeering SOB. I'd be happy to be proved wrong though.

Sounds interesting, anyway..

Cheers,

Plug

 

[Plug]

Or most Subarus. The early pick-ups are ideal donors as they're worthless nowadays. I've seen a Rickman Ranger converted to 4WD this way. They're just the right size for a 7 style kit too.

Interesting.. hadn't thought of that (and me a diehard Impreza fan).

Don't think that the flat 4 motor would sit well in a Lotus 7 style thingy, however. Very good from a C of G point of view, but a bit of a bugger in terms of packaging..

Cheers,

Plug

 

[Chas Uno]

Didn't Subaru make a model called the 'Justy', a small hatchback with four wheel drive and an inline four pot engine That might be a good base for your project if they did :idea:

 

[Tony M]

in terms of smallish 4x4 for this i'd defiantely look at the 323 turbo 4x4... or one of those goddamn ugly toyota tercel (i think it's called that) which is also a medium wheel based 4x4...

 

[Plug]

in terms of smallish 4x4 for this i'd defiantely look at the 323 turbo 4x4... or one of those goddamn ugly toyota tercel (i think it's called that) which is also a medium wheel based 4x4...

Or possibly a Nissan Sunny/Pulsar GTi-R.. 200 BHP out of the box, in-line 4, permanent 4WD and short wheelbase. Getting to be cheap and unloved nowadays as well. Hmm. I think we have a contender...

Cheers,

Plug

 

[custard]

got a turbo 1108 engine sitting down here in edinburgh

 

[default_user]

I often wondered, when I owned a Corolla GT, if the 4AGE engine would fit into a Tercel. It would be much fun methinks. I never looked into it though.

Mazda 323 4x4 Turbos are rare these days and go for mental money when good ones come up for sale, as do good Corolla GTs. I'd have another GT at the drop of a hat; it was the most fun car I've ever owned. Begged to be thrashed it did...

 

[BenW]

Actually, just remembered when i looked into 7 style kit cars one company was offering all the important bits to install into a siera chasis and engine IIRC.

 

[Oldschool]

If you're looking to make a trackday car, the Panda would be a bad starting point. Light, yes, but not a racer.

If you were making a trials car, probably a great base. They climb like mountain goats even in standard form. Add some more ground clearance and maybe some extra axle articulation...

A Fiat dealer from Lisbon finished last year in the off road world championship second in class with a Panda 4x4 (old one).

A number of people were als quite successful on grass tracks and other tracks too.