Technical Engine trouble in France!

[Hughworcester]

Dear All

Our 1998 Ducato 2 litre petrol RFW camper van did fine as far as Bordeaux. Then on restarting after a lunch break it has run very rough, losing power and uses alot of petrol. We were able to drive on to friends, about 100k away. Just about makes 55 mph though trucks overtake us on any hill! Sounds rough, vibrates at idle but otherwise unremarkable. I pulled off the leads on each cylinder and it seems the 2 middle are sparking but not contributing to the idle, makes no difference with leads off. Cylinders 1 and 4 work, it stalls immediately if I pull the lead.
Plugs are good although I changed them anyway, they all spark. Im guessing its a fuel problem to cylinders 2 and 3 but its odd as the injection system seems to supply 1 and 2 separately to 3 and 4.
Before leaving uk I tested compression, 170 in all 4 cylinders. It has a clicking tappet or hydraulic lifter but its always had that and it hasnt changed
It doesnt run hot and there are no warking lights
Were hoping to limp back to UK though for now its parked with friends in Poitiers.
Garages here seem totally busy, cant look at it for at least 2 weeks
Any suggestions gratefully received!
Thanks alot, Hugh

 

[RalphM]

If you have your compression tester with you I would test again.

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,

If coil pack is type that pairs 1 and 4 spark plugs , plus pairs 2 and 3 spark plugs ;

Is the spark at plugs 2 and 3 weak ie very thin possibly yellow? Noticeably weaker than spark at 1 and 4 plugs?
If yes coil pack could have broken down.


A weak spark outside cylinder can equal no spark inside cylinder under compression.

Best wishes
Jack

 

[jackwhoo]

By the way if one or more cylinders are not firing but are getting fuel,that fuel is going straight in the catalytic converter .where the heat of the cat will ignite it causing the cat to overheat and be destroyed , never mind the fire risk to the vehicle.

 

[Hughworcester]

Thanks Jack. Im not sure of the quality of the spark, it seems ok but it seems the coil pack for our car is shared by lots of French cars and costs around 100 euro so well give it a try. Probably a good idea to replace in an older engine anyway
Ill let you know how this all unfolds

best wishes Hugh

 

[Anthony489]

Hi Hugh

Unfortunately, this sounds like the head gasket may have failed between the middle two cylinders. This sort of failure can happen without the usual water in oil/oil in water/pressure in cooling system symptoms that can accompany head gasket leaks at other places. The results are a severe lack of compression (especially at lower revs) and therefore lack of power and smoothness, although the petrol/air mixture may still be being ignited by the plugs.

I suggest you get a compression test done (even if this means buying another cheap compression tester) which will confirm if this is the trouble or not. Even taking all the plugs out and carefully holding a thumb on the plug holes whilst turning over on the starter might reveal differences in pressure.

I can't suggest any get-you-home remedies.

I have a feeling your engine will be the 1998 cc Peugeot/Citroen XU10 J2U series. Variants of this engine were fitted to a number of Peugeot and Citroen cars from the same era. Any workshop familiar with these cars should therefore be able to change the gasket, at least you are in the home country for this engine !

 

[Exit04]

Hi Hugh

Unfortunately, this sounds like the head gasket may have failed between the middle two cylinders. This sort of failure can happen without the usual water in oil/oil in water/pressure in cooling system symptoms that can accompany head gasket leaks at other places. The results are a severe lack of compression (especially at lower revs) and therefore lack of power and smoothness, although the petrol/air mixture may still be being ignited by the plugs.

I suggest you get a compression test done (even if this means buying another cheap compression tester) which will confirm if this is the trouble or not. Even taking all the plugs out and carefully holding a thumb on the plug holes whilst turning over on the starter might reveal differences in pressure.

I can't suggest any get-you-home remedies.

I have a feeling your engine will be the 1998 cc Peugeot/Citroen XU10 J2U series. Variants of this engine were fitted to a number of Peugeot and Citroen cars from the same era. Any workshop familiar with these cars should therefore be able to change the gasket, at least you are in the home country for this engine !

I would also be checking compressions for a blown head gasket.. if you have your tester there.. as there is no way you could drive 100k on 2 cylinders(!) therefore those 2 middle cylinders must have been firing at higher engine speeds indicating low compression.. imo

 

[Communicator]

Hi Hugh

Unfortunately, this sounds like the head gasket may have failed between the middle two cylinders. This sort of failure can happen without the usual water in oil/oil in water/pressure in cooling system symptoms that can accompany head gasket leaks at other places. The results are a severe lack of compression (especially at lower revs) and therefore lack of power and smoothness, although the petrol/air mixture may still be being ignited by the plugs.

I suggest you get a compression test done (even if this means buying another cheap compression tester) which will confirm if this is the trouble or not. Even taking all the plugs out and carefully holding a thumb on the plug holes whilst turning over on the starter might reveal differences in pressure.

I can't suggest any get-you-home remedies.

I have a feeling your engine will be the 1998 cc Peugeot/Citroen XU10 J2U series. Variants of this engine were fitted to a number of Peugeot and Citroen cars from the same era. Any workshop familiar with these cars should therefore be able to change the gasket, at least you are in the home country for this engine !

See initial post. Ducato with RFW engine.

 

[Hughworcester]

Dear Anthony and Jack, thanks so much for your insights.
Luckily weve got good cover so we can avoid our first plan which was to limp back 300km to the ferry at Caen.
The RAC cover will take the camper van to a nearby garage and hopefully fix it, if not they will recover it to our place in Worcester. Meanwhile were safe with friends in a beautiful medievel village in the south called St Antonin de Noble. Once the insurance rescue is in place we get a rental car. Ill let you know how it all goes and in particular what the problem was
With thanks and best wishes Hugh and Jani

 

[Hughworcester]

Dear Anthony and Jack, thanks so much for your insights.
Luckily weve got good cover so we can avoid our first plan which was to limp back 300km to the ferry at Caen.
The RAC cover will take the camper van to a nearby garage and hopefully fix it, if not they will recover it to our place in Worcester. Meanwhile were safe with friends in a beautiful medievel village in the south called St Antonin de Noble. Once the insurance rescue is in place we get a rental car. Ill let you know how it all goes and in particular what the problem was
With thanks and best wishes Hugh and Jani

Dear Anthony and Jack, thanks so much for your insights.
Luckily weve got good cover so we can avoid our first plan which was to limp back 300km to the ferry at Caen.
The RAC cover will take the camper van to a nearby garage and hopefully fix it, if not they will recover it to our place in Worcester. Meanwhile were safe with friends in a beautiful medievel village in the south called St Antonin de Noble. Once the insurance rescue is in place we get a rental car. Ill let you know how it all goes and in particular what the problem was
With thanks and best wishes Hugh and Jani

Dear Anthony and Jack, we claimed on our recovery insurance and the garage has now confirmed your diagnosis...the loss of compression between cylinders 2 and 3 due to the failed head gasket. Garages here are expensive, they want 1500 eu to repair it but fortunately they cant do it in time so the insurers have agreed to repatriate it to our house in Worcester. I think Ill do the work myself and maybe get the head overhauled at the same time in Malvern. Thanks also the full engine numbers leading us to realise its a rare Fiat engine but in lots of Citroen relay and jumpers...so it seems parts are easily available and relatively cheap. Ive even found a Haynes manual. So its been a big hassle but looks like well come out of it with a good engine! Thanks again for all your help, Ill let you know the final result. Hugh