Technical ECU ERROR - Stop & Start & Heated Rear Window

[typecastboy]

I have another error coming up that I'm hoping someone might be able to shed some light on.

"Stop&Start connected with heated rear window switch". It does appear that neither are working and when I press one of the buttons, nothing really much happens, even a light doesn't come on.

Any ideas anyone? Picture below of the error code.

 

[typecastboy]

Nobody have any idea what might be going on here?

 

[typecastboy]

It's stopping the heated rear window and the stop start from working

 

[larslarsen]

I suspect a short circuit in the boot wiring loom.

It is a well known problem of the 500 often described in the forum.

 

[typecastboy]

Oh right, I never thought of that. Why would that affect the button and operation of the Stop Start though?

 

[larslarsen]

No idea, but in my car a short circuit in the wiring resulted in an Airbag failure message which disappeared after replacement of the related wiring. Not too difficult to do if using an repair kit.

 

[jrkitching]

No idea, but in my car a short circuit in the wiring resulted in an Airbag failure message which disappeared after replacement of the related wiring. Not too difficult to do if using an repair kit.

My experience also.

If you have a wiring fault, software based diagnostics may not be reliable and you need to fix the hardware first.

Checking the rear hatch wiring has now replaced changing the battery as the first thing I'd recommend when faced with any unknown electrical issue on the 500. I'd also recommend disconnecting the battery earth terminal quick release before checking the wiring; this removes the risk of a short circuit or a stray live feed, and could save you a blown fuse, or worse.

 

[typecastboy]

My experience also.

If you have a wiring fault, software based diagnostics may not be reliable and you need to fix the hardware first.

Checking the rear hatch wiring has now replaced changing the battery as the first thing I'd recommend when faced with any unknown electrical issue on the 500. I'd also recommend disconnecting the battery earth terminal quick release before checking the wiring; this removes the risk of a short circuit or a stray live feed, and could save you a blown fuse, or worse.

So do you cut the rubber sleeve to get it off to check the wires?

 

[jrkitching]

So do you cut the rubber sleeve to get it off to check the wires?

No, if you release both ends of the sleeve there's usually enough slack to enable you to inspect the critical area. The bit closest to where the wires enter the hatch is the most likely failure point - see picture below.

The sleeve is, in fact, the most durable part & if you're not using the repair kit, you'll likely want to retain it undamaged.

Do remember to diconnect the battery neg first.

 

[typecastboy]

Thanks for the pic. That was a bad one!! The car is only 2 years old. If it has gone that's a disgraceful bit of design. I know you can get repair kits from Germany for about £40, but this should really be something that Fiat should do as it's obviously a design fault.

As mine is a Cat C, it wouldn't be under warranty anymore I imagine!

I'll go out and check that shortly.

Thanks again.

 

[jrkitching]

That was a bad one!!

My own car, after 30,000 miles of very careful use.

If it has gone that's a disgraceful bit of design.

It is, and what's even more disgraceful is that (as far as I am aware) Fiat have done nothing to either acknowledge the problem or fix the design.

I know you can get repair kits from Germany for about £40, but this should really be something that Fiat should do as it's obviously a design fault.

I'd agree, but Fiat have not been even remotely generous in fixing affected vehicles.

As mine is a Cat C, it wouldn't be under warranty anymore I imagine!

I imagine you imagine correctly; some folks have reported having to pay for a repair even on a car which was under warranty.

 

[Mick F]

Not plucked up the courage to check ours yet.
19,500miles so far @ four and a bit years old. No electrical weirdos ............ yet.

Mick.

 

[typecastboy]

Well the wires are fine, so something more sinister I imagine. It's the message that the Start/Stop and Heated Rear Window "connected" I think it said, maybe there's a short somewhere in the heater panel. This did come off of course when I changed the dash, so maybe I've damaged something.

 

[Metalguru3]

Mines looking almost as bad as that at 30k miles
many opportunities in there for a short circuit

I had to cut the rubber with a stanley knife to access the loom as there just wasnt enough stretch in the wiring to allow me to expose the dodgy bits
all in all there was 1 broken wire (number plate lights which were the original reason for the investigation) and 5 exposed wires including the live feeds to the HRW and rear wiper and main earth
i taped over the splits in the insulation and rejoined the broken wire, but suspect a rewire will be needed in the future
the loom is too heavily packed at what is obviously a pinch point with anout 10 wires and a water tube for the washer jet all crammed into a space about the diamrter of a penny.
not really good enough on a modern car which must be earning Fiat megabucks

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

It is, and what's even more disgraceful is that (as far as I am aware) Fiat have done nothing to either acknowledge the problem or fix the design.

Yet they've modified the design in the 500C boot. The partner's Pop has a cable twice as long as that in my, slightly older, Lounge in which the loom is tightly stretched when the boot's open. It also has a plastic clip to keep the added length tidy. I guess the hatch loom, with the extra cables and the washer pipe is just 'too hard'.

 

[zanes]

Yet they've modified the design in the 500C boot. The partner's Pop has a cable twice as long as that in my, slightly older, Lounge in which the loom is tightly stretched when the boot's open. It also has a plastic clip to keep the added length tidy. I guess the hatch loom, with the extra cables and the washer pipe is just 'too hard'.

I suspect it would be a single loom design that needs modifying, and a simple modification at that.

 

[TrevC]

Has anyone looked in one of the new 500 hatches? They have supposedly made hundreds of changes, but I'm not holding my breath that Fiat would have taken the opportunity to fix this all too common fault.
Some manufacturers do take heed. Renault Megane 2s have a terrible reputation for electric gremlins with the central locking and windows, together with very difficult to change front bulbs. The Megane 3 my wife ran for 30,000 miles and nearly 3 years had no such gremlins, and the headlight units easily unfastened and slid forward to give bulb access.

 

[JTD_Liam]

Yet they've modified the design in the 500C boot. The partner's Pop has a cable twice as long as that in my, slightly older, Lounge in which the loom is tightly stretched when the boot's open. It also has a plastic clip to keep the added length tidy. I guess the hatch loom, with the extra cables and the washer pipe is just 'too hard'.

I'm guessing the mod to the 500c wiring is what the £2000-odd premium it carries over the hatch gets you (amongst the cloth roof and a few extra bits of kit)!

Has anyone looked in one of the new 500 hatches? They have supposedly made hundreds of changes, but I'm not holding my breath that Fiat would have taken the opportunity to fix this all too common fault.
Some manufacturers do take heed. Renault Megane 2s have a terrible reputation for electric gremlins with the central locking and windows, together with very difficult to change front bulbs. The Megane 3 my wife ran for 30,000 miles and nearly 3 years had no such gremlins, and the headlight units easily unfastened and slid forward to give bulb access.

Renault have come on leaps and bounds in quality/reliability since the Clio 3 was launched in 2005. A guy I worked with at a Renault dealer who was a technician said their warranty claims dropped by something crazy like 70% in 2 years.

There was a time when Fiat were stronger in the quality/reliability department than the French, but whilst they're not terrible, Fiat/Alfa do seem to have largely stood still since the early 2000s where Renault have overtaken them, despite Fiat continuing to hike their prices. I think I'd trust a Fiat/Alfa more over the long term, as their oily bits seem to wear better, but in terms of aggro during the first few years, I think Renault would probably be the better option - not least because they have a half decent warranty (4 years / 100,000 miles) and their dealers appear to have had a thorough shake up & know a thing or two about customer service, unlike with Fiat where you find maybe 1 in 5 dealers that do a decent job

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

I'm guessing the mod to the 500c wiring is what the £2000-odd premium it carries over the hatch gets you (amongst the cloth roof and a few extra bits of kit)!

Doesn't get you peace of mind...

 

[larslarsen]

Has anyone looked in one of the new 500 hatches? They have supposedly made hundreds of changes, but I'm not holding my breath that Fiat would have taken the opportunity to fix this all too common fault.
......

Just after the new 500 has been introduced to the German market, I visited my FIAT dealer to have a look on the facelifted 500.

Since I had bad experience with the boot wiring on my 2011 twin air plus 500, I inspected the design on the new model.

Unfortunately it looked and felt the same, but no idea if something inside had been changed.

The dealer agreed that it has not been modified according to his knowledge....