Technical Check Glow Plugs

[liferichcashpoort]

Hi all,

35 160 M-Jet / 3.0 / Auto / 2008

I have been getting "Check Glow Plugs" alert when starting and the glow plug symbol flashes for a few minutes after starting.

I'm new to this vehicle, and to diesel engines, but quite experienced on petrols.. so basically know what's going on..

However, I have done some exploratory nosing around and internet searching and now I'm feeling fear, so I hope you can answer some questions:

1. "Check Glow Plugs" does this really mean replace one or more? I'm trying to get to them to test them with a multimeter, but so far haven't got to them!

2. Do I really have to take most of the front of the vehicle out to get to the glow plugs? including the throttle body? I have downloaded the fiat cd thing and it says I do, is there a trick?

3. Risk of them snapping if I take them out? Is this common, and should I bite the bullet and take it to a fiat dealer to do?

4. Water ingress... hence my concern about snapping, there is too much water in the engine bay and I have read threads on here, and now have that 'sinking feeling' that there is more going on here. I have a little standing water around the right most injector and some signs of rust.. from what I can see, this is primarily because there is a well in which the injectors sit, the glow plugs are round the front and probably won't have had water around them ?? but others have mentioned it..

The water ingress issue seems to be a bad one, which Fiat should have done a recall on, is the experience that you just have to fashion something yourself?

I'm a long suffering VW van lover and am used to bill after bill on that van, but it's 30 years old, I really don't want to go down this road with this blooming expensive van - I thought I had an easy time coming with this machine!!

Sorry turned into a bit of a rant, adding to my pain is it just had a service and an approved dealer, who wouldn't look at the glow plug issue, but still charged £400 for an oil change minor service!!!

ARGHHH!!

thanks in advance all!
Andy

 

[Eklipze3k]

Let's start with the basics - glow plugs only aid with warming the block during cold starts, while driving they do absolutely nothing. So, do you have trouble starting the van? If not, don't worry about it.

 

[liferichcashpoort]

Hi, It starts fine no trouble at all, but I hate to ignore warning lights..

I am about to take the van away for more than a year to live in Europe, now I know it will be warmer so Glow Plugs should get a rest, we will also be heading into Scandinavia next winter and I would like to get ahead of the problem..

I'm going to clean up the contacts on the relay as that seems an easy job, but have started to worry, hence my rant..
Thanks for your reply

 

[Eklipze3k]

I know warning lights are often concerning, but really you shouldn't have any issues even if the plugs do decide to give up the ghost as long as the van is starting OK. No harm in looking at simple things first though.

 

[K333fer]

Don't know of yours has a dpf or not but as a note , the glow plugs are also used for aiding warm up prior to regeneration so if they aren't functioning it will sometimes abort the regen

 

[Eklipze3k]

Good to know

 

[rolopolo]

Water ingress caused my problems and glow plug problems on my 2012 3.0 180 a year ago when it was 12 month old,
Dealer snapped it off, front end dismantled and they eventually removed the remains, and also changed looms, electronic boxs, turbo and turbo sensor, and lots and lots of wiring issues,

I replaced the scuttle grills and modified drain pipes etc and its 90% better, since had another glow plug go, it came straight out, the broken one was directly under where the water ran off that bracket that hangs down in the middle above engine bay, the other was to the side

There's plenty of mentions re, water ingress on here, use plus has not wd40 to soak in and try and remove,
A Toyota garage I know use a "wurth" freezing spray, after running it hot if poss or heating area up, freezing the glow plug for it to retract in the threads obviously on similar issues on toyotas not ducatos

 

[K333fer]

Coke works well to

 

[taffybloke]

I have had glowplug issues with my 3.0. I also had same glowplug warning but still starting when cold this usually means some of the plugs are still working. The caps on the plugs can also corrode and not make a clean contact. I have replaced two of mine.

The glowplugs are long thin 8mm size and snap at 20nm so very easy to snap. again I had two snap and had to get them drilled out.

The best way to get at them is to remove the grill then the centre bumper and the slam panel and to get at the two on the right side of the engine the throttle body needs to come off. sounds a bit fiddly but it dosn't take long if using an electric screwdriver for all the grill and bumber fixings.


Mike

 

[CDK]

Don't let the Fiat electronics trick you! Most warnings are caused by moisture, bad contacts, spikes or dips in the supply voltage etc.
If the temperature is above freezing point the glow plug symbol comes on for about one second, just to check they are there; the engine starts without really using them. It is a directly injected common rail diesel, so it doesn't really need glow plugs. Builders of camper vehicles can even save some money by buying a Ducato without the glow plug system when they are confident the vehicle will not be used in cold climates.
The electronic check is done by "measuring" the current flowing through the plugs. That is a bit tricky because the battery voltage may be lower than expected at that moment. I would not remove the front, throttle body etc. from a car that starts fine just because of a warning light.

Even with 1 or 2 plugs burnt the engine will still start on a cold morning, but it may take a bit longer and the engine runs rough for half a minute. Only when that happens it is the appropriate moment to check the glow plugs.

 

[liferichcashpoort]

Thanks all for you replies

rolopolo - I read your posts about water ingress, like your mods, but don't like having to do it! not good is it!!

UPDATE:
Last night I took all the front panels away to get access, what a faff - will be easier next time, but it was dark and cold so lots of cursing was in order!

Having access to the plugs, I was able to test them with a multimeter and all four glow plugs read fine, there is no resistance in them - which I learn from the internet means all good - right?

So I am totally relieved that the plugs are good, no need to worry about replacement right now... but I'm now still on the hunt for the cause.

I then went on to get to the Preheater Relay (I think thats what the eLearn manual calls it).. taking the fuse box cover off was harder than it looked, managed to crack it so on the lookout for a replacement, then turns out the relay is just behind it on the side wall behind the n/s headlamp..

My reading told me to clean up the contacts on this, but it's a well put together connection and it was all in good condition..

But can I check I have the right thing:

I have searched for a replacement but for this model (35 160 M-Jet / 3.0 / Auto / 2008) they appear to be like hens teeth..

Is there a way to test the relay to confirm it's health?

And then what's next, if the relay is good - what else could it be?
Only other thing I have seen online is a spurious electrical fault in the loom, which feels like a mission impossible!

I'm tempted to get one of those fault code readers and see if something else comes up and to try and reset the fault.. see if it comes straight back?

Thanks again!

 

[liferichcashpoort]

Thanks CDK, I'm new to Fiat I will get less stressed as time goes by

 

[liferichcashpoort]

Does anyone know...
Is the fault light persistent until it is cleared by a diagnostic bit of kit, or does it re-test every time?

thx!

 

[K333fer]

Thanks all for you replies



rolopolo - I read your posts about water ingress, like your mods, but don't like having to do it! not good is it!!



UPDATE:

Last night I took all the front panels away to get access, what a faff - will be easier next time, but it was dark and cold so lots of cursing was in order!



Having access to the plugs, I was able to test them with a multimeter and all four glow plugs read fine, there is no resistance in them - which I learn from the internet means all good - right?



So I am totally relieved that the plugs are good, no need to worry about replacement right now... but I'm now still on the hunt for the cause.



I then went on to get to the Preheater Relay (I think thats what the eLearn manual calls it).. taking the fuse box cover off was harder than it looked, managed to crack it so on the lookout for a replacement, then turns out the relay is just behind it on the side wall behind the n/s headlamp..



My reading told me to clean up the contacts on this, but it's a well put together connection and it was all in good condition..



But can I check I have the right thing:

I have searched for a replacement but for this model (35 160 M-Jet / 3.0 / Auto / 2008) they appear to be like hens teeth..



Is there a way to test the relay to confirm it's health?



And then what's next, if the relay is good - what else could it be?

Only other thing I have seen online is a spurious electrical fault in the loom, which feels like a mission impossible!



I'm tempted to get one of those fault code readers and see if something else comes up and to try and reset the fault.. see if it comes straight back?



Thanks again!

Can you unplug it and take a close up of the pins will they see if can give you a simple tests to carry out

 

[ecunotemu]

Should be relatively cheap from scrappie, £44 from latvia:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-028...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c95f501ef

What resistance did you measure for the glow plugs should be somewhere between 0.5-1.5. OEM ones are 1.4 ohms. Dont forget to check the meter lead resistance first and subtract that from the reading. Measure the resistance via the relay socket to rule out wiring.

 

[ecunotemu]

Better still:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-DUCA...759?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19f73c12ef

 

[CDK]

Does anyone know...
Is the fault light persistent until it is cleared by a diagnostic bit of kit, or does it re-test every time?

thx!

The fault is written in memory, so the warning light turns on every time. You can erase the fault with an OBD2 reader, then see what happens the next time you start.