Technical carberator problems

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Technical carberator problems

Raph406

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Oct 5, 2009
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Missoula MT
i have recently got my x19 running, its a '79 1500 with the weber carb on it. first of all is that the automatic choke thats tempature controled does not work, it all looks conected, but is always open and not choked at low tempature. Any tips for trouble shooting it?
The other problem is that on the secondary barrel of the carb, it does not open by its self, i belive its vacum operated, it will open if you do it yourself, The diaphram seems to be in great shape. Any ideas why?
Thanks
 
Hi Raph,

Does the autochoke water jacket on the side of the carb, or the two small coolant circuit hoses that go to it, get warm at all? If the car has not been scrupulously maintained it's very likely these hoses have become blocked with crud. In bad cases the aluminium pipes break off the water jacket because they are rotted through.

Regarding your vacuum secondary (yuk), I suspect you won't see it open just by revving the engine with the car stationary. I think the engine has to be under a fair load for enough vacuum to be generated to open the secondary.

Cheers R
 
The easy way to check those pipes is to give them a squeeze and flex them a bit - if they need clearing out you will hear a distinct cracking noise (the lime/chalk breaking up inside). The simple solution is to just replace them as they are just regular pipe. The thermostat itself would likely also need help and it is worth removing it and soaking it in a bath of diluted vinegar to dissolve the accumulated chalk.

The thermostat part is seperate from the autochoke and just detaches but keep an eye on the position it was fitted in (it is important) and when refitting make sure that the autochoke spring is correctly tensioned and clips into place (not as easy as it sounds - I would offer some helpful tips on the subject but it has been a long time since I did this one and I just can't remember).
 
lets see, it has the two coolant hoses that lead to it. they look in good shape, they defenatly get warm, i will take it off though and clean it
is there any way to test the secondary?
thanks for the help

oh while your reading i was also wondering i have some hydrolic problems with the clutch, the previous owner said he replaced the clutch master, i took out the coolant overflow tank to see the slave, i also filled the clutch resivor, and opened the bleed on the slave cylinder while someone pumped, and messed around with it. there clutch pedal wont come up by its self, any help? im not to great at clutch.
Any tips?
 
There should be a big spring on the clutch pedal to pull it back up, ignoring all the workings of the clutch itself the spring should be enough to move the pedal.

If the pedal goes down *and* moves the clutch arm but it won't move back then there is something really wrong. The more common situation is the pumping the pedal has no effect on the slave cylinder.

Back to those pipes, they are actually the easiest way to bleed the cooling system on the car as they are by far the highest point in the cooling system. If you can get the car on a slope or jack the rear of the car up (securely) it becomes very feasible to just ease the uppermost of the pipes off to let any residual air out. One of the more common failures of the autochoke system is thast there is nothing more than steam going through those pipes.
 
ok lets see, i got the clutch working! the slave in and bled, anyhow i took apart the temp choke. theres plenty of fluid the bimetal strip looks good, but the problem seeems to be that when the strip moves its not conected to the choke arm, there both on the same shaft, but they dont move together. would a sodder bead fix this? or is there some sort of pin?
also the secondary doesnt seem to be working, at least around town. ill try on the highway, when theres alot of strain on the engine at high revs it doesnt open? could the vacuum line be clogged??
also i was thinking of routing the air cleaner housing to the air intake on the side, so more cool air could get in? i havent been able to drive much because its so damn icy here=(
 
Regarding the carb, the secondary is mechanically activated, not vacuum per se - although this helps. Check the lower link on the right side of the carb, this should open the butterfly in the second throat. This link is below the auto choke. Its possible the connection has got damaged. I'd also pull your jets and make sure these are clean and correct. People sometimes do some weird things here. The main jet on the primary should be 1.07 but could also be a 1.15 or 1.20 as these are sometimes used (I run a 1.15) to improve pick up, especially if a high flow air filter is used (I use a RAM filter and these work great but K&N also do high-flo units). The secondary main jet should be a 1.30 but again you can use a 1.35 as this can overcome a slight hesitancy when transitioning from the primary to the secondary. The standard air correction jets are 1.60 and 1.50, respectively but I run a 1.80 in the primary to keep things lean. Emulsion tubes should be F30 for both and the neddle valve is 1.75. I'd also check your butterfly openings, choke pull down and float level. This is all detailed in the supplement to the Haynes manual - make sure you are looking at the 34 DATR carb setting for the 1500, the 1300 carb is different. Hope this helps.
 
ok lets see. it doesnt seem like anything is wrong with the linkage. it just not opening the secondary. the only way it seems to open, is by operating the big vaccum diaphram lever by hand, to pull the secondary open. am i missing somthing? is there a digram for this carberator? i am about to get a 32 datra insted that was off of a 1300. should i rejet this carb? can i use the jets from the one that is on the carb now?
 
The carb for a 1300 has smaller throats so will definitely need re-jetted and even then you'll compromise performance as these motors are a little ashmatic anyhow. I take it you haven't got a Haynes manual as this has a good selection of photos, etc. I'd strongly recommend you get one - info on the 34DATR is getting hard to come by.

The following is a bit long but I found very useful.

Rather than give a step-by-step procedure, I thought I would share my knowledge of how the system works, and how I have adjusted it to work best!

The auto(matic) choke has a choke flap in the primary venturi of the carburettor (towards the back of the car). The position of this is set by a bimetallic spring coil, located under the cover. The operating linkage includes a cam with several steps. The thottle linkage has a long fast-idle-speed adjustment screw, which bears on this cam.

To 'set' the auto choke, you press the accelerator all the way to the floor, once. This causes the fast-idle adjustment screw to lift off the cam, allowing the bimetallic spring to position the cam (and choke plate) correctly. With the engine cold, the choke plate should be more or less fully closed at this point.

The plate itself is spring-loaded, so that with the engine running the choke will cancel itself to some extent. There is also a vacuum device that partially cancels the choke (a similar device is also fitted to manual-choke carburettors). The adjustment of the vacuum 'pull-down' is a procedure that requires measurement of the choke plate opening (using a twist drill bit) and is detailed in the Supplement chapter of the X1/9 Haynes manual.

As the engine warms, the coolant flowing through the choke housing will cause the bimetallic spring to cancel (open) the choke. However, the movement of the operating cam will be impeded by the fast-idle screw resting on each step. This is why the choke seems to be 'cancelled' by short stabs on the accelerator. It is also why the engine seems to idle fine for some time (the fast idle remains on the same step), yet once the car is driven, the engine stalls at the first intersection!

To check for coolant flow to the auto choke housing, I loosen the single 11mm nut in the centre of the housing cover, with the engine hot and running. There should be a leak of hot coolant.

You may wonder why the choke action (enrichment) is necessary. Without the extra fuel, the cold engine exhibits great hesitation as the throttle opens, and smooth progress becomes difficult. The secondary requirement of the choke is to raise the idle speed; the engine will not idle at the normal setting until quite warm. The 'fast idle' is often quoted at 1500RPM for setting with the engine warm, but remember that with a cold engine, the same throttle opening will give only 900RPM or less.

There are three settings for the auto choke: vacuum cancelling mechanism (see above), fast idle screw (adjustment either by throttle opening specification, or by trial-and-error), and the housing position (which affects both the initial amount of the choke, and the rate at which the choke comes off as the engine warms).

The Primary barrel idle jet also affects the choke operation. If this jet is too large (e.g. inscribed with '70' instead of the expected '47') then the choke will cause the carburettor to deliver too much fuel to the engine, giving a 'lumpy', pulsating quality to the engine idle.

If the auto choke 'cancels' too early, progress through the gears during normal driving will reveal flat spots at part-throttle. Of course, the engine may also refuse to idle as it begins to warm up (even slightly), yet may idle correctly once warm.

Do not be tempted to increase the fast-idle screw setting; since this may cause the engine to run too fast during initial starting. Also, the fast idle screw should not affect the idling once the engine is warm: if screwed in too far, it will.

If the idle speed tends to rise as the engine warms up, perhaps to 1500RPM, making reverse gear selection difficult, then the auto choke may not be cancelling early enough.

Mark the position of the housing before you make any adjustment, in case you have to return to the previous setting. I use correction tape.

Three slot-head screws secure the clamp ring of the housing. To gain access to the screws, you will probably need to slacken the 11mm centre nut and rotate the housing cover (with coolant pipes attached). Once all three screws are slack, temporarily re-tighten the cover nut, so that you can turn the housing slightly. With the air cleaner off, and the choke set, you should see the choke flap move.

To make the auto choke cancel sooner, rotate the housing clockwise. Do this if it seems that the engine revs tend to rise as the engine warms up., or that the engine idling tends to be lumpy (too rich).

Rotate the housing anticlockwise to give the auto choke a stronger effect (to overcome drivability problems), so that the choke flap closes fully.

After making any adjustment, remember to readjust the fast-idle screw the next time the engine is completely cold.

As the engine warms up, blip the throttle at regular intervals to check that the fast idle reduces in appropriate steps. Also check that the engine pulls as smoothly as can be expected...

Such adjustment of the choke will take a few days to perform and test under all conditions, since the engine must be cold each time.

Alternatively you may wish to remove the carburettor and perform the settings of the choke 'pull-down', the fast idle screw, and the choke housing position as per the measurements given in the supplement of the Haynes manual.
 
rob(insonx19),

I too have been playing with the autochoke on my '78 1300 X. The above info is great but my Haynes is next to friggin' useless! (for more than this problem!).The supplement covers nothing on the carb and there are certainly no measurements to be found.

Unfortunately, I had already removed the housing before marking, but it wasn't working anyway. My coolant lines and choke chamber are clean and clear.

So now to my questions.
1. How much tension should be on the coil spring with the engine cold and at rest?

2. Should the flap be fully closed when choke is first activated? With the choke flap fully closed by hand, my engine will not start

3. Does the spring coil (tighten) or uncoil (loosen) as it gets warmer?

As far as I can tell, the choke mechanism is in working order.
 
I'll do what I can from memory but it has been a mighty long time since I had a real X1/9 datr carb in my hands.

By default the choke flap sits wide open but is actually sprung to close. When you press the throttle pedal before starting (like you're supposed to) it allows the choke flap to close by moving the autochoke actuator arm away from the cam which then allows the cam to turn - if you look at the cam you will see it is stepped. This is your clue as to which way the spring is supposed to move. The cam lobe should be at its widest point against the arm when cold.

There doesn't need to be much tension on the spring as the whole mechanism has a very light movement (or should have).

The fine tuning of the choke is in how much the choke flap closes - this is your slow idle speed adjustment and it is all done by changing the length of the choke actuator arm by screwing it in or out. The choke flap should be almost but not quite shut. If it is completely shut then the engine is starved of air with obvious detrimental effects, if it doesn't shut enough the cold idle circuit doesn't kick in and you don't get enough fuel.
 
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