Doblo Candisa's Doblo T-Jet LPG

[Candisa]

So another 3 hours later:
- LPG evaporator relocated to create space (new custom bracket, coolant lines, lines to the filter, LPG feed line shortened)
- New intake pipe from a Bravo T-Jet, customised (shortened, plastic welded + sealed)
- Custom bracket to support the intake, attached to the motor support so the intake can move as one piece with the engine but the weight is supported.
- Fuel evap and boost blow-off recirculation lines elongated (boost control and pcv were direct fit)
- Wiring for the right hand side headlight rerouted to create space.
- K&N RG-1001-RD pod airfilter installed.

Brrraaaap pshhht

(28000km on the clock now)

 

[Candisa]

So this happened (28.500km)...

 

[Candisa]

"Watching glue dry"

New windshield, upgrades while I'm at it:
- blueish sun strip
- blacked out VIN-window

 

[Candisa]

Picture of my Bella Doblo with the new windshield.
No more ugly white VIN window, got a nice and practical sun strip instead:

 

[Candisa]

And why I was at the Fiat specialist when the cracked windshield was discovered:

 

[Candisa]

Technical updates:

30.000km: full maintenance time:
- oil change + filter
- interior filter
- No air filter service as the K&N pod is only recently installed.

40.000km:
- oil change
- wheels switched front to back

----
Recent:
45.000km: PROBLEMS!
(Warranty)


- Misfiring under high long load in high gears, AGAIN!

Since we had a lot of issues getting enough temperature in the Lovato LPG system in the past, and the injectors were already replaced with a different brand after having multiple Lovato ones fail, the part that heats the liquid LPG to gas is now also switched out with a different brand.
-> The LPG ECU now reads a higher temperature and much less drop under continuous load, so this definitely shows again Lovato LPG parts aren't recommendable.
-> The temperature follows the coolant temperature closer, which means minimum temperature to run LPG is reached sooner. Petrol savings!


- Cold start issues: long starting and running terrible for a few seconds, inconsistent.

When working on the LPG system the mechanic found out the LPG self-adjusted quite a bit lately, likely due to the misfiring.
This isn't desirable as the Fiat ECU also learns, so if these systems start compensating for eachother when running on LPG, the next time I start the car on petrol everything's thrown off!
After replacing the LPG heat exchanger the LPG ECU has been recalibrated.
-> The theory of the fighting ECU's should be solved now, but since the problem was inconsistent...
-> I'm still not entirely convinced the starting issues are over, I now video every cold start so I can catch it if it acts up again...

 

[Candisa]

Modifying update:

Fiat thinks it isn't necessary to have full performance in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, which causes rubbish acceleration. (Emissions?)
I don't want this full time eco mode as this actually invites me to floor the throttle and rev the engine, so I contacted a well known dutch FCA ecu tuner to solve this issue.

They read out the ecu software to figure out what's going on:
- For now they only found a very strict torque limiter (105Nm!) in first gear.
- This is now removed and I'm getting 0.5bar of boost instead of zero boost in 1st, which is very close to the 0.7bar I'm getting in high gears, I guess limited by the low load.
- Instead of barely being able to break traction on wet roads when launching hard, I now have to feather the throttle according to the conditions in order to not smoke my tyres, so the performance release is obvious and plenty.
- Unfortunately 2nd and 3rd is limited in a different way they haven't figured out in the limited time of my visit, so no changes there yet. However they now have the software, so they're working on it and I expect an invitation soon.

 

[Candisa]

Hopelessly behind on updates, but somebody parked my Dirty Doblo's older sister behind her, couldn't resist taking a terrible phone picture:

 

[Candisa]

Update:

The restrictions were found and fully removed shortly after my last update, which transformed the van and finally made it pleasant to drive.

Unfortunately my Doblo started having cold start issues a month ago. My garage has been looking and looking, every sensor behaves as it should, the LPG-system and boost-gauge have been disconnected, the engine itself has been inspected as much as possible without dismantling it, the throttle body has been swapped out...
All without any improvement.

Fiat suspects the ECU has become faulty, which would be bad news since it has been altered, but apparently they are working on a case of an Alfa with a Multiair engine that produces the same symptoms, which could set a precedent and keep Fiat from blaming my issues on the modified software.
Since diagnosing can only be done twice a day for a few minutes, and everything is going through Fiat headquarters, I'm without my Doblo already for almost a month now with no idea when I'll get it back.

I realise my luck is terrible and Fiat wouldn't be able to continue existing if this wasn't an exception, but since this isn't the first time something went wrong with mine, my trust is broken and my plans to make it a fast daycamper I'll drive until the wheels fall off are binned.

I hope this issue gets resolved and Fiat/my garage settle an affordable arrangement since the Doblo is out of its warranty period (although I could technically claim a few months extension from all the time it's been out of order within the warranty period), and I can enjoy it trouble-free for a few more years, but I will definitely sell it when something else pops up or in max 2 years while there is still some residual value.

I've always wanted to own a red Italian car, a van, and a brand new car. The Doblo was all 3 in one but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work out for me.
I'm sorry for those of you who were waiting on a Doblo tuning and/or camper build project, but you won't find it here. The Doblo has sunken from dreamproject to a utility status. My mind and dreams have moved on, and like a piece of IKEA furniture, the Doblo will do it's time with nothing more than normal care until it'll eventually be replaced by something better, most likely of a different manufacturer.

 

[Candisa]

Long long time ago!

The problems I've had last year were "caused by bad petrol". I've always used Total Excellium 98 from the local Total station, so I doubt it and it cost me a lot of money to have them find and fix the issues, so since then I religiously only use petrol from the Gulf pump at my dealer. If anything happens "because of bad petrol" in the future, they can eat the bill themselves!

Funnily enough, apart from another broken window and the first dent/scratch (soon to be fixed) -KNOCK ON WOOD!- I haven't had any issues anymore lately, so maybe I'll hang on to the Doblo for more years to come than expected.

However I did decide to cancel all plans regarding performance tuning. I'll just have the chiptuner max out what's possible with the stock turbo/cams/... and that'll be it.

I do have other plans: further personalisation. It'll become a hippie van (started stickering, work in progress) and since my tyres were mostly worn I've invested in a set of 7.5x17 Rial Bavaro wheels wrapped in Fulda Sportcontrol 2 235/45/17 tyres.

 

[TheDoblongandWindingRoad]

What a journey and a half. Any updates since then? I hope the motivation would return for the Doblo but I can see your frustrated. I would of given up a long before you did.
Your post was really helpful, I have a 2.0 Diesel 2015 and the torque often get limited and I always wondered what was wrong. Your information about the full eco mode would explain everything.
I have converted the back of my Doblo to sleep in and I would highly recommend it. Hopefully will be embarking on 4000 mile round trip from the UK to Croatia in it this week.

Max

 

[Schumi2001]

Interesting that EU countries are still promoting dealer and factory fit LPG systems when in the UK LPG filling stations are being closed.

 

[Candisa]

Well, the theme continues unfortunately:
- The front strut bearings started clunking while maneuvering at about 80k km, Fiat gave a 50% discount on a set of new ones, but since those are rather cheap parts that involve a lot of work to install, that barely made a difference financially. I've got them replaced anyways at the 90k km maintenance.
- Because of the poor experiences and barely any "coulance" from Fiat to compensate for the trouble I've had beyond the warranty period, I've decided I'll use as many non-Fiat-branded parts as possible to maintain the Doblo from now on, as I doubt I could be worse off than using genuine parts anyways and I don't want Fiat to earn a dime on me anymore. I used a Purflux oil filter (which actually looks more substantial than the genuine one) and non-Fiat-branded (but otherwise identical) NGK sparkplugs and will continue to use these parts every 30k km. Since I've never been happy with the performance of the brakes, I plan to prematurely (still running the original set, these things don't wear, no wonder they don't perform!) replace the front disks with Zimmerman ones (heard great things about those) and the pads with TRW ones (used to be very happy with Lucas in the past, which has been acquired by TRW).
- While doing the 90k km maintenance last week, I've noticed the coolant was a bit below the maximum level. Further investigation showed my coolant pump is slightly leaking! My dealer will now ask for more "coulance" from Fiat, but I don't expect anything from that. Normally the coolant pump gets replaced with the timing belt at 5 yrs/120k km, so this shouldn't be happening. For now I'm keeping an eye on the coolant level and will top it up if it drops near/below minimum, and unless the leak gets a lot worse sooner, I'll just replace the timing belt + tensioner + coolant pump prematurely at 100k km (I change my oil every 10k km as I'm a lead-footed driver).

Since it's a Fiat that depreciates like crazy and depreciation on cars/vans is the highest during the first years anyways, and I actually still like driving the Doblo, I see no other option than keeping the Doblo running as long as the cost of premature wear and tear doesn't get too wild. I don't know if I'll drive it 'until the wheels fall off' or just for a few more years, all I know is I will never ever buy a new/young Fiat again since this Doblo is officially the second least reliable car I've ever owned, only to be beaten by a severely mistreated high-mileage LPG-converted Ford-era Volvo V70 and worse than an ex-lease Renault I bought when it had the same age and clock as my Doblo has now.
The only thing that keeps me from eating the loss and replacing my Doblo with an old 7- or 9-series Volvo is the taxes and penalties Belgium has instituted on those cars because of their environmental impact, as my 1989 Volvo 740 2.3 was the most reliable car I've ever owned and I still regret to this day I've sold it because of its fuel consumption instead of converting it to LPG.

 

[Candisa]

Interesting that EU countries are still promoting dealer and factory fit LPG systems when in the UK LPG filling stations are being closed.

EU Countries don't promote LPG anymore, they haven't been doing that for decades anymore and LPG converted passenger vehicles are actually taxed more than petrol or diesel versions. But since they're so busy promoting electric and CNG, and trying to get diesels out of traffic (Belgium still is a huge diesel-country), they haven't (yet, fingers crossed!) realised there is a loophole where cargo-vehicles that are LPG-converted aren't taxed extra while still benefiting from the low fuel price.
LPG filling stations are slowly disappearing here as well and they make the rules for them stricter and stricter to discourage them from further existing, but a lot of them are fanatics that are willing to keep up with all the regulations. It will take many more years before LPG filling stations will become rare and less practical than an electric or CNG vehicle (every single filling station on Belgian motorways still offers LPG, but barely any of them offer CNG or have electric speedchargers).
All in all, I'm good for now with my LPG-converted cargo-van. I plan to move from the middle of nowhere to a small city in 2-3 years where I should be able to find a job and have everything I need close to home, so by the time that fuel-price-loophole is shut I won't do as many annual kilometers anymore anyways.

 

[Schumi2001]

LPG has been named in a recent UK Government paper as a cleaner 'transition fuel' and we should encourage its use.

I don't usually travel through Belgium (although a motorbike trip down the Grote Route with ladies advertising themselves at every set of lights was entertaining) - our usual trip is Hook of Holland through to Germany / Austria in our LPG campervan.

The Netherlands and Germany still have around 90% availability of LPG from what I can see - with only a few operators removing the tanks (Shell being one of them, mirroring the UK). I used to have a contact within Autogas UK who knew a number of OEMs were looking at expanding LPG availability from the dealer through factory or dealer fit options.

I have concerns about availability in the UK, as our 'van does 20mpg and I really need to be able to run it on LPG - gets expensive on Super (99) unleaded! However, so long as availability remains good in most of Europe, I'll be happy. We plan to run it into the ground (could take a while as it's a Toyota that is pretty much a Lexus) - and the market will have moved significantly by the time we replace it - most likely with a newer generation petrol hybrid.

 

[Candisa]

I would definitely recommend you to catch at least a little corner of Belgium on your next trip: LPG is a lot cheaper in Belgium than in The Netherlands. There are barely any taxes on LPG fuel here because they claim extra road-taxes on LPG converted (passenger) vehicles. In The Netherlands owners of an LPG vehicle actually get a discount on their road taxes, but they tax the fuel more instead to make it only slightly more interesting than diesel/petrol.
I too believe LPG is a step in the right direction for emissions, but I'm actually glad our government doesn't realise that at the moment: we've had a very right-wing government the last 5 years and despite losing a lot of votes they managed to stay in power for the next 5 years. Their tactics are very obvious: convince people of something, then tax it when enough people took the step. They did the same thing with diesel: they first promoted it because of the low CO2-emissions compared to petrol, then they taxed everybody who bought an 'eco-diesel' because of NOx and fine particulates. So as long as they don't promote LPG, I don't worry.

 

[Candisa]

Another year has passed, and so did the 100.000km mark!
(Yes, I know, the Doblo can use some interior dusting and detailing :yuck: )

Maybe not in Fiats book, but in my book this means: oil change and check-up time!

Wheels & Tyres:
There was a little shake in the steering wheel at around 115km/h: the balance of the front wheels needed a little adjustment -> SOLVED
The Fulda tyres I have on my 17" alloys provide plenty of sideways grip and do a great job dispersing water according to my view in the mirrors.
I definitely recommend them as an affordable option on the REAR axle of a FWD car.
However the front pair is wearing down fast and is just as miserable at finding traction in the wet as the almost-worn Vredestein all-seasons tyres I had on the stock 16" steelies.
I do NOT recommend them on the front axle of any FWD car that puts down a bit of torque.
:idea: One of the Fuldas found a stray screw, had been plugged, and now resides on the front axle where it will wear down fast.
I will NOT rotate these wheels and replace the front tyres by something better when they're done for.

Timing Belt & Waterpump:
The coolant level hasn't dropped below minimum since we discovered the pump had an episode of incontinence.
The timing belt appears to be in great condition but moved ever so slightly to the engine.
:idea: No worries there, but a new kit will be put on at the 110.000km mark, which will be at a little over 4 years of life.


Electrical:
While checking the battery, the test instrument showed "Good condition, charge".
This was unexpected since I've driven quite a bit on the motorway (120km/h, 3400rpm) before going in for service.
While the engine was running we measured only 13.5V at the battery, which went down further when turning on the lights/blower/defrost.
The alternator delivers a nice 14.2-14.3V with an idling engine, but...
We discovered a burned spot on the shrink wrap on the starter-side terminal of the cable going from the alternator to the starter! :bang:
Time to do something about it to avoid being left stranded or worse.
:idea: Instead of just replacing that cable, we'll do a bit of upgrading... SOON!

Brakes:
I've never been very happy about the performance of the brakes. Pads and rotors that wear equally fast is also a trend I'm not a fan of.
While the front wheels were being rebalanced I've taken a good look at the 3/4 worn pads and rusty rotors (both still factory original) and decided it isn't to much of a waste to finally put something else on there. :yuck:
:idea: A pair of known-brand coated rotors and a set of brakepads of a brand I've had great experience with in the past is ordered and will be installed... SOON!