Technical Brava 100SX Problem starting

[TheCROW]

My Brava has problems starting in the morning or when cold... I turn the key and wait for the pump noise to stop and then start it but it won't turn, it's like there isn't enough petrol to make it going (it kinda chokes and turns off) so I try again and as soon as it starts to turn I step on the gas pedal and it starts ok, it idles a bit roughly if I remove my foot until it's beginning to get warm, after that everything is ok...
What could be the problem? Could it be the choke needs cleaning?

 

[jug]

you poor lad. if i didnt know you or your car i'd say its possibly the temp sensor or idle speed control valve. as i know you've already covered both these things in recent history id say bugger.

as you have a long crank time when cold (turns over for ages before starting) i'd suspect the fuel pump or regulator. you've covered that recently so bugger again.

the next step i'd take in finding the cause would be intake leaks, a bad intake manifold gasket, or a hose leak. worth checking but rare and hard to spot.

if you have very high milage or head gasket failure in the past i'd say compression problems, but thats not your car, it may be worth doing a compression test.

dont think the 1.6 has one, but on some cars i've had to test the 'thermo-time switch' (not sure what correct name is lol) which is used when cold starting (fuel injection equivalent of a carb's choke). i usually remove its wiring connector and earth one of the pins (which one is guesswork). if it then starts i replace the switch and all is well. done that on a bmw and a sierra iirc. not sure if your car has the same thing.

personally i think your temp sensor isnt quite right yet. but who knows. i'm all out of ideas. maybe a trip to fiat is finally needed

 

[TheCROW]

Thanks for replying Jug
I haven't changed the temp sensor nor touched the idle speed control valve, nor the fuel pump nor the regulator!!!
The car runs pretty good but the only problem is when I start it from cold, the motor doesn't turn a long time, just the time it's supposed to but the car chokes up unless I step on the gas pedal, it then starts fine. Also when it starts, if I rev it a couple of time only, it idles normally.
My car has 120000KM on the clock and don't think it has ever had a headgasket change...
The sparks are only 10000KM old... Maybe I should clean the idle speed control valve or something?

 

[jug]

definately worth a go

its cured the exact same problem on many cars, and if you think its bad now just wait until winter mornings. its time to fix it now or you'll be getting the bus in a few months.

 

[TheCROW]

definately worth a go

its cured the exact same problem on many cars, and if you think its bad now just wait until winter mornings. its time to fix it now or you'll be getting the bus in a few months.

hehe!!!
Can you explain to me exactly what to do? I don't know where it is and exactly what I'm supposed to do...
I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[jug]

you need to get the haynes out mate. the idle speed control valve needs cleaning with wd40 or something like that (petrol works too). its on the throttle body. do that first as i've got a feeling that'll sort it (had same problem on my 1.6 last winter)

 

[TheCROW]

you need to get the haynes out mate. the idle speed control valve needs cleaning with wd40 or something like that (petrol works too). its on the throttle body. do that first as i've got a feeling that'll sort it (had same problem on my 1.6 last winter)

Cool, Thanks Jug.
I have the Haynes Manual, I'll have a read and get back ASAP

 

[TheCROW]

Question, how do I know for sure if my coolant temp sensor needs changing?
When I replaced my thermostat it wasn't changed, not even cleaned...

 

[jug]

you can heat some water to 60 degrees and dunk the sensor in with it still connected and see if your gauge reads it correctly, but as the bravo/a gauge has no temp numbers thats not really possible on these cars. if you need to be sure you need to know the expected resistance of the sensor at different temperatures, say 10 and 60 degrees, then measure your sensor's resistance at those temperatues using a thermometer and some water which you cool or heat as required. i dont know the expected resistance, sorry.

 

[TheCROW]

you can heat some water to 60 degrees and dunk the sensor in with it still connected and see if your gauge reads it correctly, but as the bravo/a gauge has no temp numbers thats not really possible on these cars. if you need to be sure you need to know the expected resistance of the sensor at different temperatures, say 10 and 60 degrees, then measure your sensor's resistance at those temperatues using a thermometer and some water which you cool or heat as required. i dont know the expected resistance, sorry.

Hmm thanks... My car temp seems to be ok, when driving and in traffic the temp is always on the center dot (till now fingers crossed).
I wanted to be sure about it cos the coolant temp sensor is the only coolant related item I haven't changed.

 

[jug]

if the gauge is staying at half way its probably fine

 

[TheCROW]

if the gauge is staying at half way its probably fine

Let's hope so
Thanks Jug.

 

[TheCROW]

I have changed the temp sensor but the car still won't start in the morning without pounding the pedal while turning the key...
I took the car to my mechanic, he took out the air intake hose, the thick one and he started cleaning the part connected to it on the engine with WD40 and revving the car (I don't know what it's called)... he told me that this needs cleaning.
But this didn't fix the prob...

I checked Haynes but it doesn't give much info on how to clean the Idle Control Valve to a newbie like me

So anyone can share some pics and a step by step tutorial of how to do this please?
It started to rain heavily here and the weather is changing, I need to fix this ASAP cos I have a couple of days off this week-end.

Please help guys.
Thanks.

 

[jug]

here's my favorite pic of a multicoloured ISCV

its bascially just an air flow switch that allows some extra air into the intake manifold to make the idle stable. it allows some air to bypass the butterfly valve in the throttle body because the butterfly valve is closed at idle. they tend to get blocked up with dust over time, causing rough idle. to clean it you should remove it from the throttle body then wash the air passageway with petrol, making sure the airway is open. hopefully you'll get loads of crap out and make the switch move more freely.

if your car idles smoothly once it is started i wouldn't think the ISCV is causing any problems. but its something you can try

 

[TheCROW]

Thanks Jug, the car only idles smoothly after I rev it a couple of times...
I think that is what the mechanic did... I hope not.
Is it easy to remove? or do I have to have some special tools and skills?
I wish I lived in the UK close to all you guys

Maybe it has something to do with the HT leads... The other day I bought a set but the mechanic suggested I didn't replace them cos the ones I bought were branded Magneti Marelli and came wrapped in a Marelli bag and looked somewhat "cheaper" than the ones installed on my car, those are branded FIAT and look very high quality.
What do you think? If I go to get them from Fiat dealership they will cost a fortune. What does the ones you have look like?

 

[jug]

Magneti Marelli is owned by fiat. its thier electronics division and they make parts for fiat. i'd definately fit them and see if it makes any difference. so many time i've fixed problems simply by replacing the leads. they may look nice but internal wear or damage is impossible to see

you can remove the ISCV easily yourself, its not hard at all.

 

[TheCROW]

Cool, thanks.
About the leads, I meant that the ones installed on my car obviously have better build quality, they look more rugged and high quality design, while the Marelli ones looked a bit lower quality.

 

[jug]

looks can be decieving

 

[TheCROW]

Well, I went to my car armed with my Haynes manual, WD40 bottle and my tool box... And after some time of looking and reading ended up not doing anything
Haynes is worthless on the matter and so am I :bang:
I couldn't know where is the IACV, maybe I should remove the throttle body before getting to it? Which is the throttle body?
Help! I need to step on the gaz pedal several times for my car to start from cold, this cannot be normal!!!

I'll take a pic of my engine and post it here and I'd really appreciate it if anyone can guide me through step by step.
I'll just have to wait till the rain stops!!

Thanksall.

 

[jug]

post a pic and i'll draw an arrow to the ISCV. then you can take it off and squirt petrol through it