Technical Brake Pads

[ahmett]

Hey I know that it completely depends on driving style but how often have people changed their brake pads?
I am almost at 18,000 miles and I do not feel that they need changing ( i do not hear any squeaks or anything and the sensor hasnt come on)
BUT I am absolutely certain that the stealer will convince me to change them to make some easy cash = )

 

[Bookish]

I was reading this thread yesterday which might help you
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/279988-dealers-fitting-your-own-supplied-parts.html

just pop a wheel off and have a look how much material is left on your pads?

 

[306maxi]

Here's a good reason not to trust the sensors on the pad

https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93906&d=1313937233

The sensor was on the pad with the least wear, so the other three could be almost on metal and the pad with the sensor has plenty of meat.

As bookish said, pop a wheel off (I say pop both off) ad have a look.

 

[ahmett]

Here's a good reason not to trust the sensors on the pad

https://www.fiatforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93906&d=1313937233

The sensor was on the pad with the least wear, so the other three could be almost on metal and the pad with the sensor has plenty of meat.

As bookish said, pop a wheel off (I say pop both off) ad have a look.

Thanks for the photo. It seems like your pads had some juice left! I think there is also an intuative feel to brake pads being worn, such as they fade more often and they tend to squeak more?

 

[306maxi]

Thanks for the photo. It seems like your pads had some juice left! I think there is also an intuative feel to brake pads being worn, such as they fade more often and they tend to squeak more?

No, the pads should really be exactly the same until you hit the backplate. The worst of the pads probably had a few thousand miles left in it, but the time and effort involved in getting to the pads meant it was just easier to change the pads there and then.

 

[SmoothHound]

43000 miles and still on 1st set of brake pads.

 

[ahmett]

43000 miles and still on 1st set of brake pads.

Yes I was thinking of changing them at 60000 km (the 2nd service) so that sounds about right!

 

[306maxi]

It really is the sort of thing you need to actually look at, I would say that a couple of my pads were a little stuck in the caliper hence the extra wear. He might be fine @ 43,000 miles whereas mine probably wouldn't have lasted to 35,000. It reall is a case of getting them checked out.

 

[jrkitching]

...I would say that a couple of my pads were a little stuck in the caliper hence the extra wear....

This is very, very common in the UK climate if you don't lubricate & protect the sliding surfaces of the reaction frames. I've already taken mine apart, wirebrushed the frames & applied Cu grease - I was surprised just how corroded they were after just one winter. I'll post some pics later as it's an easy job & will also help reduce the rolling resistance of the car - even though the pads & discs are cheap, any extra wear has to be paid for in fuel, & every little helps.

 

[306maxi]

This is very, very common in the UK climate if you don't lubricate & protect the sliding surfaces of the reaction frames. I've already taken mine apart, wirebrushed the frames & applied Cu grease - I was surprised just how corroded they were after just one winter. I'll post some pics later as it's an easy job & will also help reduce the rolling resistance of the car - even though the pads & discs are cheap, any extra wear has to be paid for in fuel, & every little helps.

Yeah, I put come copper grease in the reaction frames and basically anywhere where things could stick together. The disks needed a goog hammering to get them off so greasing the parts of the hub where it contacts the disc and also greasing where your wheels touch the brake disc mean everything comes apart nice and easily. I think I might have been a little too sparing with the copper grease so I might take it apart and do it all again, won't take long tbh. The left hand side was an absolute bitch as it's the side that runs at the side of the road and picks up more crap. Went onto the other side and it took almost no time at all.

Having partially taken this set of fixed caliper subaru 4 and 2 pots apart today I wish the person who'd put the pads and pins in had used some copper grease. Unlike he pins in the 500 calipers which just go through the reaction frames and the caliper, these go twice through the caliper, through 2 pads and also through a spring and were an absolute pig to do, I had to go to B&Q to buy some nail punches to punch the pins through. Wish I'd had them when I was doing the 500's brakes.

Now just need to get these things sandblasted, painted replace all the pins, seals, bleed nipples and so on and the pistons if they're seized in and I'll be braking like crazy in no time. that's if the wheels fit over the brakes of course

 

[oncepastthepost]

And on the subject of brake pads, when do i know to change my brake discs? I always thought the only way to confirm that you need to change brake discs was to take a micrometer/caliper and measure the thickness and if less than the min = change. Now, the stealer i bought the car from tells me the way to check is purely a visual inspection - no need to measure at all, and mine are fine so please go away - WTF!?

Considering I just bought the car and they did both the MOT and the service before i collected I feel like the stealer decided to save a bit of money by not replacing the discs - in 12 months time, fail MOT and it's wear and tear so they not liable. The cynical part of me feels if I was a regular punter and pulled up for a service they would be telling me i need a disc change. Does anyone concur?

 

[306maxi]

There is no way to tell accurately from a visual inspection. The Brembo discs I put on actually have two dimples machined into the disc which give you a visual telltale, but the standard discs don't have this. No way of telling without a micrometer.

The discs for my car were just a shade above 20 quid so it seemed silly NOT to change them while I was there. I'll invest in a micrometer for next time though..... Must remember to order myself another set of discs and pads, gotta keep at least a set in stock Sadly the 1.4 front discs are more expensive, tbh I wouldn't buy cheapie 1.4 front discs as being a ventilated disc I think you'll want to buy something from a reputable manufacturer.

 

[ahmett]

And on the subject of brake pads, when do i know to change my brake discs? I always thought the only way to confirm that you need to change brake discs was to take a micrometer/caliper and measure the thickness and if less than the min = change. Now, the stealer i bought the car from tells me the way to check is purely a visual inspection - no need to measure at all, and mine are fine so please go away - WTF!?

Considering I just bought the car and they did both the MOT and the service before i collected I feel like the stealer decided to save a bit of money by not replacing the discs - in 12 months time, fail MOT and it's wear and tear so they not liable. The cynical part of me feels if I was a regular punter and pulled up for a service they would be telling me i need a disc change. Does anyone concur?

To be hoenst when i showed my car to a car dealer one day and asked if the brakes needed changing and I said no, he went close to the wheel and put a torchlight in to check and said no problem it is fine!

 

[loveshandbags]

And on the subject of brake pads, when do i know to change my brake discs? I always thought the only way to confirm that you need to change brake discs was to take a micrometer/caliper and measure the thickness and if less than the min = change. Now, the stealer i bought the car from tells me the way to check is purely a visual inspection - no need to measure at all, and mine are fine so please go away - WTF!?

Considering I just bought the car and they did both the MOT and the service before i collected I feel like the stealer decided to save a bit of money by not replacing the discs - in 12 months time, fail MOT and it's wear and tear so they not liable. The cynical part of me feels if I was a regular punter and pulled up for a service they would be telling me i need a disc change. Does anyone concur?

My thoughts are that you can always go looking for problems and if you look hard enough you will find one. Since your 500 only has 20K on the clock I can't really see how they would need changing. Looking at other threads on the FF where the difference between a new disc and a worn one is only 2mm it is highly unlikely with standard pads that you would have worn off 2mm.
For me personally if I was looking to change the discs and there was still some 'life' left in them I would be tempted to put on high friction discs front & pad :devil: (although they would be in breech of the E standard) to wear them out so that I could justify changing them.
There is also the 'schools of thought' about putting on new discs & pads on at the same time where 'some say' that you are better off putting on the new pads first to bed them in and then at a 'slightly' later date to change the discs.

 

[oncepastthepost]

When i took my car to the dealer for them to inspect they were very reluctant to tell me what width my discs were, sticking to the line that you only need to do a visual inspection and the measurement didn't matter. I just find it hard to believe that they wouldn't measure. I'm not a mechanic but visually my front discs do have a lip on the circumferance (significant or not I cant tell) and while this isn't a sure sign that they need replacing, a quick measure would be the only way to resolve the matter. This led me to ask the question why have a minimum defined if you only need to do a visual inspection? If they had told me 'your discs are 21mm which is over the minimum of 20.2mm (which is the official width for 1.4 fronts)' I would have walked away with peace of mind.

(discreetly posting while at work...)