Technical Battery problems with fiat punto cabriolet

Currently reading:
Technical Battery problems with fiat punto cabriolet

sazziwazzi

New member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
4
Points
2
Hi HELP HELP HELP
I have been having a problem with my R reg fiat punto cabriolet for the last two years.

Battery keeps losing charge intermintetly even when car has been driven previous day, aa have replaced battery 6 times and alternator has also been changed.

We have tried to eliminate all problems by leaving alarm off, re wiring stereo,have checked interior light in booot and car not staying on.

The alternator has been checked by fiat who tell me that a 13.5 & up means that the alternator is charging correctly.

We are completley at a loss as to why the batteries keep dying, can anyone help please.
 
I can't offer a specific guide, but let's go back to basics. There are three and a half reasons why a battery would fail:
- Not enough current coming in from the alternator
- The battery can't retain its charge
- Too much current going out through the electrics
- The battery is actually charged,, but can't deliver that energy where you want it.

You really need a multimeter, and a mate, to work through the following (the former's fairly cheap at Halfords/Maplins/etc., and both are rather useful to have handy)

1) Current In
13.5V sounds OK, not great but OK. So in principle this isn't the problem. However, perhaps there's a flaky connection. So have a nose around the connections. Then start the car (by whatever means necessary), and use the multimeter to measure the voltage across the battery terminals. It should read 13.5V or more. Try waggling the connections from underneath (careful with the fingers) and see if there are any fluctuations. If not, you can be fairly confident the alternator's OK.

2) Battery Fails To Retain Charge
Batteries do fail of old age. But not this quickly. in your case, this is a symptom, not the cause.

3) Current Out
This is the most likely cause. It can be due to too much current, or too long a time. Puntos certainly do drain their batteries rather quickly, so you might find that it's your lack of use that's causing the problems.
You say that failure has occurred overnight, which would suggest it's not time, but it might still be this. There is a misunderstanding that 15 mins running (a normal drive) will charge a battery fully. This is not correct - it will put a healthy dose in, but won't fully charge it. So if you are not using the car much, it might seem OK one day (chugging into life), but be flat the next morning. Worth considering.
The other aspect, more likely, is that too much current is draining. First, remove, or disconnect the battery. Check the voltage across the bare terminals - if it's below 12V that battery is probably failing, and you should really buy yet another.
Now charge it for at least 12 hours. You should now see about 13V.
Now leave it overnight and recheck (and note the value). If it's dropped notceably, that battery's dying.
But if it's OK, reconnect it, and recheck. You should see perhaps a 0.1V drop. Any more, and you probably have a dodgy earth. If so:
- Whilst your mate watches the multimeter, start removing each fuse, one-by-one (remember, there are three different sets of fuses to check)
- If you pull a fuse, and the voltage reading jumps back up, that's the/a circuit with a dodgy connection.
Quite what you do with that information is where the fun starts. You need to check through the wiring for items that shouldn't be on it, or can be switched off, or have badd connections. At the very elast, you can at least give the garage something to aim for.

4) Battery Can't Deliver The Power It Has
This is an odd one that came up recently, and it will depend on the symptoms you actually have. You would see all the electrics (lights, etc.) working fine, just the starter refusing to turn over or making a very flabby attempt to engage.
The issue here was that the battery was fine, but that the connection to the starter motor was damaged. In this example's case, the earthing strap was badly corroded. Inspect the cables and fixings for tightness and integrity. If there's any suspicion, you could jury-rig up a temporary earthing strap from some spare battery cable and see it it solves the problem.
If the symptoms fit, and the multimeter tells you the battery looks fine, this could be a route to look down.

So sorry, no definite answers, but at least some ways of trying to isolate the cause of the prblem.
 
What sort of runs do you do in it? If you do a lot of stop/start cycles with the engine, and only short runs, then often the battery won't have time to completely recharge the current drawn in starting the car, and so over time the charge level gets lower and lower, until the battery is running virtually drained.

With your 13.5V charging voltage, it's not charging at optimum, so the length of trip required to fully replenish the battery is longer than normal.

Lead acid batteries don't like being run at low charge levels repeatedly, and the plates will become sulfur contaminated and the battery will die.

Course if you only do long runs then the problem lies elsewhere. If you're doing mainly very short runs then a good long run once a week should help to maintain a healthy battery. If that's not an option then invest in a trickle charger that you can plug in overnight to make sure the battery stays charged.
 
my cinquecento does the same thing, i havent been able to drive it much so i think its just draing it. do you have to use mainteneace free batteries or can you use acid one in centos?
 
I can't offer a specific guide, but let's go back to basics. There are three and a half reasons why a battery would fail:
- Not enough current coming in from the alternator
- The battery can't retain its charge
- Too much current going out through the electrics
- The battery is actually charged,, but can't deliver that energy where you want it.

You really need a multimeter, and a mate, to work through the following (the former's fairly cheap at Halfords/Maplins/etc., and both are rather useful to have handy)

1) Current In
13.5V sounds OK, not great but OK. So in principle this isn't the problem. However, perhaps there's a flaky connection. So have a nose around the connections. Then start the car (by whatever means necessary), and use the multimeter to measure the voltage across the battery terminals. It should read 13.5V or more. Try waggling the connections from underneath (careful with the fingers) and see if there are any fluctuations. If not, you can be fairly confident the alternator's OK.

2) Battery Fails To Retain Charge
Batteries do fail of old age. But not this quickly. in your case, this is a symptom, not the cause.

3) Current Out
This is the most likely cause. It can be due to too much current, or too long a time. Puntos certainly do drain their batteries rather quickly, so you might find that it's your lack of use that's causing the problems.
You say that failure has occurred overnight, which would suggest it's not time, but it might still be this. There is a misunderstanding that 15 mins running (a normal drive) will charge a battery fully. This is not correct - it will put a healthy dose in, but won't fully charge it. So if you are not using the car much, it might seem OK one day (chugging into life), but be flat the next morning. Worth considering.
The other aspect, more likely, is that too much current is draining. First, remove, or disconnect the battery. Check the voltage across the bare terminals - if it's below 12V that battery is probably failing, and you should really buy yet another.
Now charge it for at least 12 hours. You should now see about 13V.
Now leave it overnight and recheck (and note the value). If it's dropped notceably, that battery's dying.
But if it's OK, reconnect it, and recheck. You should see perhaps a 0.1V drop. Any more, and you probably have a dodgy earth. If so:
- Whilst your mate watches the multimeter, start removing each fuse, one-by-one (remember, there are three different sets of fuses to check)
- If you pull a fuse, and the voltage reading jumps back up, that's the/a circuit with a dodgy connection.
Quite what you do with that information is where the fun starts. You need to check through the wiring for items that shouldn't be on it, or can be switched off, or have badd connections. At the very elast, you can at least give the garage something to aim for.

4) Battery Can't Deliver The Power It Has
This is an odd one that came up recently, and it will depend on the symptoms you actually have. You would see all the electrics (lights, etc.) working fine, just the starter refusing to turn over or making a very flabby attempt to engage.
The issue here was that the battery was fine, but that the connection to the starter motor was damaged. In this example's case, the earthing strap was badly corroded. Inspect the cables and fixings for tightness and integrity. If there's any suspicion, you could jury-rig up a temporary earthing strap from some spare battery cable and see it it solves the problem.
If the symptoms fit, and the multimeter tells you the battery looks fine, this could be a route to look down.

So sorry, no definite answers, but at least some ways of trying to isolate the cause of the prblem.
Thanks for information have checked battery drain by removing fuses have found a drain relating to independent alarm system, hopefully this is the problem. With regard to my alternator i forget to mention that this is a new reconditioned alternator from fiat only 4 months ago so should it be charging more than 13.5 to 13.8
 
Guys I have a weird problem with my 2000 Punto, 1.9 HLX JTD.

Bought only a few weeks ago so I don't know the history of what's been changed/repaired, and when. Only 25k miles on the clock and in excellent condition. I've driven it for a further 1k since purchasing, with no problems whatsoever.

Using it to commute to/from work each day, 25 miles each direction. Most of that mileage is at high speed, not motorway but between 50-60 mph.
Weekends drive it a bit less, but it get's driven.

Got back from work, went home for about 15 mins to get ready to go out, but it wouldn't start. Lights all come on, but engine just will not turn over at all.

After turning to MAR, watched all the lights. The only one that remained on was the glow plugs. Blinked for about half a minute then turned off. Tried starting again, same thing.

Bought a multimeter to get a battery reading, got 12.5 (setting for ohms was on 20). Change the setting to next one down (which was 2), and the reading came out at 1. Tested a new battery in the battery shop and got the same results.

Tried jump starting using my other car, the engine did turn a little, but not enough to start. Therefore I have no way of taking a reading when the engine has started (to test alternator).

Disconnected the battery and connected it up to my charger, set for an overnight 12V trickle charge (for 18 hours). The reading on the charger the night before was 10% i.e. charging is 10% complete. Checked at the end of the charge-cycle (18 hours later), the reading was still 10%.

Nevertheless, re-connected the battery and tried starting and no surprise the result was same. Lights and readings came on, but engine did not turn.

Possible problems:

1. Battery - could be struggling to send out power to get the car to start, but I don't know how to check this.

2. Battery - could be knackered (although looks clean and new (ish), because it doesn't seem to charge with a car battery charger. However the reading (12.5) is probably ok, right?

3. Alternator - is there some other way to test this without the car being switched on?

4. Glow plugs - I doubt these are the problem, could the blinking light just be a symptom of some other electrical problem?
 
If the glowplugs were totally shot the car would still start in the Uk's weather. It may take a few more seconds to catch but it would turn over normally and eventually start.

Its a wierd one, The fact your battery didnt charge with the charger properly leads me to think its dud. Have you tried another battery? jump starting probabily wont work if the battery is dud.

Or try bump starting it?
 
Its a wierd one, The fact your battery didnt charge with the charger properly leads me to think its dud. Have you tried another battery? jump starting probabily wont work if the battery is dud.

Or try bump starting it?

I was thinking the same, but could a dud battery still giving a reading of 12.5 on the multimeter? (with engine turned off, of course)

To 'try another battery', would I cause any harm by taking the battery out of my other car (C-Class Merc), and connect it to the Punto's terminals?

Bump starting isn't an option as I'm parked at the bottom of a slope. Also, not sure why the manual warns never to bump start it.
 
I was thinking the same, but could a dud battery still giving a reading of 12.5 on the multimeter? (with engine turned off, of course).

yes as its the amps that give the power to start the engine.

To 'try another battery', would I cause any harm by taking the battery out of my other car (C-Class Merc), and connect it to the Punto's terminals?.

it shouldn't do any harm to the punto but unsure on the merc as they have so many electrical gizmos.

Bump starting isn't an option as I'm parked at the bottom of a slope. Also, not sure why the manual warns never to bump start it.

i have never heard of not being able to bump start a car i think you would be able to though.
 
I bought a new battery and tried it, same result, so maybe the original battery wasn't dud.

Any other thoughts on what could be wrong?
 
I bought a new battery and tried it, same result, so maybe the original battery wasn't dud.

Update:

Tried charging the new Bosch battery. When connected, the charge status was showing just 10%, which I thought was strange because it's a new battery which comes charge. Also, the old battery was ALSO showing 10%, even after an overnight charge.

So after an overnight charge with the new Bosch battery, it was still showing 10%, so I figure the battery charger (or at least the charge status indicator) is also dud. Neverthless I haven't had a chance to re-connect the new Bosch, after overnight charge, to the car. Will do it tonight.

Meanwhile I'm now thinking the problem might be the starter motor, and the original battery may even be fine. Any thoughts?
 
May possibly be the starter motor or the wiring goign to it.

Have you tried rocking the car back and fourth in gear (make sure ignition is off) for a few seconds then trying to start the car this sometimes helps free things up if they are stuck.

Also for the first try with the new battery i would connect the second (old) battery up with jump leads (as you would when jumping it from another car) to the new battery installed in the car. It might just give it some extra juice if the starter is stuck.
 
Thanks for these great tips.

I tried rocking the car in gear, as hard as I could - no difference.

I located the starter motor and tapped it with the tip of my golf umbrella - no difference.

I tried connecting the old batter in a jump-start configuration - no difference.

Finally I tried connecting the negative battery terminal directly to the engine block, using a jump lead, to bypass the earthing from the battery - the engine turned for a split second, but not enough to start the car.

I think this means the problem could be the connections / earthing, so I'm having a mechanic come over tomorrow evening to take a look.
 
Back
Top