Technical Aircon condenser

[Rogereld]

Our recently acquired 2010 100hp has a climate control system that needs a bit of attention. The interior cooling fan is doing a lot of work in warm weather and the air con is not cooling the air. A quick look at the condenser surprised me. Looking through the front grille I can see a lot more of the radiator cooling fins than I expected. The foil baffles between the horizontal fins of the condenser have mostly disappeared. They look like they are made from thinner foil than the stuff we use for cooking.

A mobile air con specialist has visited and has confirmed the compressor and other parts of the system are functional. The system was not filled with gas as he has advised we need to replace the condenser which has leak. Various after market options are listed at various prices. Does anyone have any experience of differing quality between them? The dimensions listed online seem to vary slightly from one brand to another. Is this just different makers taking their measurements from different points or are there lots of different size units available?

 

[koalar]

Some parts I just buy the cheapest online

But something like this where I have to pay someone else to regas I would get from a motor factor that supply's to the motors trade

Same when buying brake or other critical parts

They don't like warrenty returns so don't supply complete rubbish but will be be value for money

Last one I fitted wasn't for a Panda and was around £70 but don't know what brand sorry

 

[kmor panda]

A radiator / condensor etc is made using two principles - one, using flattened pipe and bent back and forth in a concertina pattern OR a single pipe with pieces of metal with holes welded onto it. In yours, you have flatened pipe with thinner metal between them to increase their surface area - which are missing.

The theory is to increase the surface area of the metal so that more air can be effected by the temp of the radiator. Look at the radiators in your home, and compare the ones that have the extra metal bits in the middle to the ones that do not, and you will find that the ones with extra metal bits (called vented) have a higher heat output.

If these pieces of metal, normally very thin flat steel, have broken off / are missing, there is a high chance that there is leakage at where they broke off.

In your case, this happens to be part of aircon system, and since working on same is highly regulated, the only people that will be able to know the difference between brands are the same people that really don't care - as they are more interested in brands that fail / weep so that they get more work.

Metal fatigues over time / use, and an aircon system rad will endure cycles of compression expansion which limit its life. I suggest that, as a marker, that you use something other than aircon products that a company makes to compare its quality - i.e. most aircon radiator makers will also make turbo radiators and main radiators.

BTW, as you state that your aircon is empty, why not remove the condensor and drop it into a recon place to get it redone / sealed etc., there are a few of them in the UK (according to Mike Brewer) - after all, it is just a vented radiatior so most rad specialists should be able to recondition it.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Really common problem with fiat condensers, replacements are cheap and plentiful. Not worth reconditioning it, that thing is f**ked, badly corroded and likely has the gas tightness of Swiss cheese

Call someone like Euro car parts or GSF tomorrow and see what options they have, then buy the cheapest dimensions differences might be more related to the packing and listed for postage purposes rather than the actual specific size of the part if you phone one of the reputable companies like those I have mentioned above it will come with a warranty and not be some nasty cheap thing made of chinesium like you may find on eBay

 

[The Panda Nut]

Had ours done 5 years back. Denso is the original supplier and are available around 100£.

 

[kmor panda]

Had ours done 5 years back. Denso is the original supplier and are available around 100£.

I keep forgetting how cheap Fiat Panda parts actually are as compared to other makers. Recon are in the 50-60 range, but if new is 100, get new and loose the risk.

 

[Rogereld]

If Denso was the original supplier, and it has been suggested failure is a really common problem with fiat condensers, perhaps I should avoid Denso. I have owned other cars of greater age and have not seen a condenser as "transparent" as this one.

 

[koalar]

15 year being hit by salt, stones takes it toll, add pressure and expansion the originals don't do bad

Looking through adverts Nissens rings a bell but can't be 100% now

Came from CES which now no long exists taken over by GSF

 

[Rogereld]

I will get on the phone tomorrow and see what our local motor factor has to offer. NRF, Nissens, Valeo, Stark and others are available online and all at reasonable price so I should find something suitable without supply problems or delay. With no gas in the system I may be able to fit the part myself and then get the system pressure tested and re-filled with gas.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I will get on the phone tomorrow and see what our local motor factor has to offer. NRF, Nissens, Valeo, Stark and others are available online and all at reasonable price so I should find something suitable without supply problems or delay. With no gas in the system I may be able to fit the part myself and then get the system pressure tested and re-filled with gas.

I think with the condenser it had to go in from the bottom or you have to take the front bumper off one required you to get the car very high off the ground which if not done securely can be a bit dodgy and unsafe, the other is just a lot of extra work

it may just come down to the quality of the allow y used that causes them to disintegrate after a few years

 

[koalar]

Condenser is remove upwards

It can not be done without removing the bumper

My 05 and 06 need the bottom bumper bolts drilling out

My 2011 looks like the bolts should come out, but I have never tried

It can be done without jacking the car, as long as you are willing to get a bit rough with the wheel arch liners, and the bottom bumper bolts don't need drilling

But probably easier just to remove the wheels

Looks like a common problem

Book time is 1.3 hours

Click below for instructions

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

 

[jrkitching]

The foil baffles between the horizontal fins of the condenser have mostly disappeared.

This is extremely common with Panda/500 condensers; I've seen cars less than three years old with most of these foil baffles missing. Take a look through the front grille of most of these cars, and you'll likely see something similar.

I have owned other cars of greater age and have not seen a condenser as "transparent" as this one

The baffles seem completely unable to cope with the UK climate. Given the state of most OEM condensers I've seen, I'd buy just about any other brand; they could hardly be of any worse quality.

If these pieces of metal, normally very thin flat steel, have broken off / are missing, there is a high chance that there is leakage at where they broke off.

Interestingly they don't usually leak gas; they often remain functional, gastight and perfectly capable of doing their job for many years after most of the baffles have disappeared.

My own Panda is 13 years old, and had lost most of these baffles by the end of its third year; the A/C is still functional and gastight.

That said, the one pictured does look like it's had it. Given the low cost of these condensers, it would seem sensible to replace before doing a regas if it looks well past its best, even if it's not actually leaking.

<thread drift>

Something similar happens with the exhaust backbox; visually they appear to have corroded significantly after only a few years, but usually it's only the outer skin that goes; they can remain gastight for several years more, and a number of annual MOT advisories, before they actually have to be replaced. You can even remove the outer skin, and it'll still work and pass an MOT.

I finally replaced my original 13yr old exhaust this summer; amazingly the backbox was still sound; the system finally failed at the join in the pipes just upstream of the backbox; corrosion had caused both pipes to perforate, so replacement was the only sensible option. I got the first MOT advisory in August 2016, so it lasted a further 7 years after the outer shell had rusted through.

 

[Rogereld]

The mobile air con specialist returned for a second visit last week. He supplied and fitted a new condenser and serviced and re-gassed the system, just in time for a heatwave weekend.

The price he charged to do the whole job was not much more than for us to purchase a condenser and pay for the cost of a re-gas. He is experienced and equipped to check the whole system and if there are any problems in the future we have his support. On this occasion we decided it was not worth doing a DIY project.

The climate control is now working.

 

[vexorg]

My own Panda is 13 years old, and had lost most of these baffles by the end of its third year; the A/C is still functional and gastight.

Our 500 is 8 years old, and almost all are still there, just a very small area starting to go where the lower opening is on the bumper.

 

[koalar]

Cool

Well done in updating the thread

Often we never find out what the final outcome was,

Weather good or bad it helps others that follow down the same path

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The mobile air con specialist returned for a second visit last week. He supplied and fitted a new condenser and serviced and re-gassed the system, just in time for a heatwave weekend.

The price he charged to do the whole job was not much more than for us to purchase a condenser and pay for the cost of a re-gas. He is experienced and equipped to check the whole system and if there are any problems in the future we have his support. On this occasion we decided it was not worth doing a DIY project.

The climate control is now working.

And that’s why on this forum the reply to any aircon issue is to get an aircon specialist to do it. If they come to you even better

 

[Jockstrap]

And that’s why on this forum the reply to any aircon issue is to get an aircon specialist to do it. If they come to you even better

All a bit iffy for me. Pedantic maybe, but what did the mobile charge and for what?
I'm currently working on my newly bought 2008 500. A side observation in removing the bumper and drilling out 4 bolts, is an almost complete lack of fins in the condenser. The AC still "works".
What's the bought-in charge for that? Then the tap and refit?