General A litle more power?

[John H]

Absolutely

It seemed an easy way to answer the question "25 or 35?"

Roughly the 0-60 is
around the 15 second mark on a 999 "FIRE" (35KW) Top speed 87MPH
around the 21 second mark on a 750 "FIRE" (25KW) Top speed 78MPH
around the 18 second mark on a 903 (35KW) Top speed 84MPH

Those figures are from

http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/performance/performance.aspx?model_id=267

and may not be absolutely correct.

Also be aware if you do the top speed measurement the speedo will show faster than real.

 

[Sacan]

Hehe, lets lift this old Thread again!
I got a new name but im "Marbella" from the older posts.

I have had the Marbella for some time now and it runs grate, no problems at all!
Still have no ide if its 25 or 35 kw.....
But it goes to around 130km/h thats 80.73mph max speed on the speedo

 

[Jaff_Fox]

I know its not a real cheap way but surely better than changing a good engine.. has anyone considered nos?.. not overkill like the nova bad boys have but just a light injection of it to give you that extra power when needed. Its a ~fairly~ easy mod that would not require you to change the engine or pull the whole thing apart.

 

[Sacan]

But its expensive!
And its not all that grate for the motor ither would you think?

best way is to buy another car really,

 

[Martiny10]

When they moved to the 1108CC engine FIAT fitted larger, more powerful brakes as standard - which suggests that the current set up is pretty much at maximum with 45HP. This is bourne out by how little hard driving is needed to get the brakes to fade.

So I personally would not bother upgrading unless I had the cash to swap the brakes and investigate the need for stiffer shocks etc.

 

[Yak]

+ Clutch / Gearbox issues.

 

[Jaff_Fox]

Extra speed ~alone~ does not require better brakes.

 

[John H]

AIUI

the bigger brakes on the 1108 CVT are required because there is no engine braking with CVT.

Despite that, I would agree you do need better than standard brakes when all around you have Servos, and ABS, and EBD:
if you're close to the back of something equiped like that and they do an emergency stop, you'll need another Panda.

Regards

John H.


P.S. as an aside, some weeks ago I saw a beautiful "M" plate Panda (which would have had servo brakes) planted up the back of a new Volvo.
Urban 30mph, and I guess the Volvo did the proverbial emergency stop because the council grass mower came out a bit into the road to drive around a speed camera post.

A great shame about the car - the driver was rather distressed too, she was having the collar fitted by the paramedics when I walked past.

 

[Jaff_Fox]

The reason I said the above is because in my view wider tyres would come before better brakes.. Its no good having good brakes if your contact with the road is minimal... bigger tyres = better brakes required not bigger speed *shrugs* those 155 'racer' wheels fitted as standard on the panda would probably lock with blocks of wood as brakes pads. You can easily lock them with the none servo panda at any speed.. ABS yes.. but in a panda? lol.

 

[John H]

The reason I said the above is because in my view wider tyres would come before better brakes.. Its no good having good brakes if your contact with the road is minimal... bigger tyres = better brakes required not bigger speed *shrugs* those 155 'racer' wheels fitted as standard on the panda would probably lock with blocks of wood as brakes pads. You can easily lock them with the none servo panda at any speed.. ABS yes.. but in a panda? lol.

My comment about ABS etc was really to indicate what you are up against, rather than suggesting you migh try to fit it to a Panda.

Regarding wider tyres - it's an interesting and complicated business which we've tried to discuss here before:

https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=14415

Whatever you do, if it's outside the standard 155 you'd need to tell your insurers, or have very deep pockets if you crash.

 

[Martiny10]

With more speed, there is going to be heavier braking, not unless you only plan to go faster for a little bit, returning to normal panda speeds at the first whiff of a bend.

Given the rate that the standard brakes fade, an upgrade is a must, even if only better ventilation.

I find from my experience that ABS (at least early ones) reduce braking performance. The shuddery On/Off ABS braking does nothing to inspire confidence, and seems to occur well before the point that wheel lock would actually happen.

The feel in the pedal from having unassisted brakes, coupled with larger discs, wheels and calipers would be the best combination. With the feel from the system, one could adjust braking effort as needed. A servo would reduce the effort required, but not improve braking power.

And fitting ABS on a Panda could be done, I would gamble that a Punto system could be made to fit with minimal bodging. I think it would need 14" rims though, but I am going out on a limb at this point. It is just a case of desire/mechanical skill/cash.

Rather than blocks of wood, I would suggest shoe leather - worked for Indiana Jones.

 

[John H]

For nearly all drivers modern braking assistance will produce a shorter, more controlled stop.

When, or if, you manage to lock things up in a panic, it takes a lot of balls/experience to ease off when you're at the point of hitting something.

 

[Giacosa]

Had a look at some old road tests of Marbella with 843 and Panda 45s with 903cc. Seat Marbella 850L 0-60 An eye watering 22 seconds.
Panda 45 4spd 18seconds, down to 14 seconds!! for the 903 5 spd. Guess leaf springs dont weigh much

 

[John H]

I thought the 14.7 time was for the early 999 (carbed) FIRE.

My suspicion is that the times were increased either by the engine management, or to avoid encroaching on the Cinq Sportings territory

 

[Yak]

Or the restriction of a CAT?

 

[Martiny10]

Or even more unlikely - it could be similar to the 3 door FIAT Tipo 2 litre, which was (is) slower than the larger 5 door due to the addition of structural reinforcement (and ok perhaps a less agressive cam too).

Maybe the extra weight from safety features is part of the reason for the drop in performance.

 

[John H]

Maybe the extra weight from safety features is part of the reason for the drop in performance.

I may have missed something along the way, but the '90 CL and the '93 and '94 CLXs seem remarkably similar as regards any features.