Technical 52 plate punto diesel van idling problems

[themadwelshman]

Egr valve is blanked off mate. I think. Going to laptop now and post pics. Cheers. Speak later.

 

[themadwelshman]

update dannyboy.

Have checked etc like you mentioned seems ok.

Question is am I in the right place ? As you can see from the pics this sensor you mention with the electrical connection and vacuum that goes round the back of the engine . My vacuum doesnt. It stops at right hand end of the engine into a t join with 1" pipes ??? Is this correct.

Also on packing up to come in to the laptop I noticed quite a distinctive noise coming from the area of the pump..

Sound like a tappets noise but a lot finer and a lot faster like a brrrrrrrrr sound. metal on metal. sound like its at the cambelt end of the pump ???????? Could be way off but might be something. What do you think ? Have you heard this before ?

Also on another note have you got a model and maybe a selection of years that this engine was also installed in so i can phone around scrap yards for quotes on a pump.If that is the problem. Is it the same in a TD etc.

Your help is much appreciated mate and I am very grateful. Cheers Tony.:worship:

 

[D4nny8oy]

Cheers mate. Checked sensor by air filter. Seems ok move flap by hand and I can hear relay clicking so not broke off. Anyway of checking movement with engine running ? Flap is fully open at moment ? Where is this throttle chamber you mention mate ? Really obliged for your help in this.

The flap should only close when under vacuum and the engine is warm. If it's open now and moves freely, it's a good sign. Only way of testing is to watch it with the engine running and ensure it's staying open normally. Throttle chamber is the flap unit.

update dannyboy.

Have checked etc like you mentioned seems ok.

Question is am I in the right place ? As you can see from the pics this sensor you mention with the electrical connection and vacuum that goes round the back of the engine . My vacuum doesnt. It stops at right hand end of the engine into a t join with 1" pipes ??? Is this correct.

Also on packing up to come in to the laptop I noticed quite a distinctive noise coming from the area of the pump..

Sound like a tappets noise but a lot finer and a lot faster like a brrrrrrrrr sound. metal on metal. sound like its at the cambelt end of the pump ???????? Could be way off but might be something. What do you think ? Have you heard this before ?

Also on another note have you got a model and maybe a selection of years that this engine was also installed in so i can phone around scrap yards for quotes on a pump.If that is the problem. Is it the same in a TD etc.

Your help is much appreciated mate and I am very grateful. Cheers Tony.:worship:

I'm doing most of this from memory, so some things are a little hazy. The pipe linking to the brake servo pump hose sounds right.

With the ignition on, the ECU will be energising the solenoids in the pump, so you will hear an electrical buzzing from the unit, plus other items in the engine bay.

Like I say, the 1.9d wasn't a popular engine with only the mk2 Punto and Doblo using it as far as I know, and was replaced by the 1.3 jtd in '03. It's a Lucas pump, but I doubt it's the same as the older TD engines. I tried finding the part number via ePer at the top of the forum, but it's not working at the minute. Failing that you can ask your local Dealer for the number and try local breakers or diesel pump specialists.

 

[themadwelshman]

Thanks for all your help mate. Really appreciated. Just don't know what else I can do at the moment. Do you think it's the pump playing up ? I'm leaning that way at the moment.

I'm going to go to my local garage tomorrow and have it plugged in properly to be on the safe side. If he can fit me in I'll update you tomorrow after work. Cheers bud.

 

[D4nny8oy]

The Rotor position problem is well known to be down to the pump internals, though why the throttle flap was listed as faulty I can't be sure- just make certain it's open with the engine idling.

ePer is running again- http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...INT_MODE=0&EPER_CAT=SP&GUI_LANG=3&WINDOW_ID=1

As you can see, the part number is (or was) 46528884 for a new pump, with 71723582 and 71723584 listed as numbers for genuine recon pumps.

Hopefully these will help your search.

 

[themadwelshman]

Thanks for that mate. Printed it off. Than will update later.

 

[themadwelshman]

Latest update.

Took van to garage to confirm my readings just in case £20.
The first thing he got was a fault saying that the voltage was wrong in the ECU ?? Don't know what happened to that cause he then went to a different screen. All these codes then came up.
P0252 injection pump fuel metering
P0510 closed throttle position switch
P0110 intake air temp sensor 1 circuit
P0638 throttle actuator control range
P0380 glow plug/ heater circuit
P0380 again

Now that's a fair few codes only one I had got was throttle position switch.
Now I'm thinking if there is a voltage problem in the ECU could that then be making all the other sensors wonky ????
What and where do I test voltage on the ECU. Got testers etc I'm a sparky by trade 230v.
Many thanks for all your help so far

 

[D4nny8oy]

Hmm, sounds a bit odd.

If the voltage in the ECU itself was incorrect, it would usually be listed as a fault. Is the vehicle battery struggling? ECU's don't like the voltage going much below 12.6v and it can cause false error-reporting.

Seems the majority of those errors are contained in the throttle flap unit. If you can source a secondhand one cheaply it may be worth trying, unless you can find a wiring diagram to check continuity between it and the ECU.

Have you been getting the glowplug lamp flashing after start-up for about 30 secs? It's just that you've not mentioned it before, and in cold weather the 1.9d isn't as able to cope without working glowplugs as the JTD is, and will struggle until it's warm.

 

[themadwelshman]

Hello Danny. Thanks mate. Now that you mention it. The battery seems ok no problems turning engine etc checked voltage and ok. But the flashing glow plug for a few seconds has happened to me a couple of times but only first thing in the morning she is a complete bitch to start then but ok to start rest of day. Except sometimes when she cuts out you'd expect her to start straight away with the engine being warm but she won't till the glow plug light goes out doesn't matter how many times in a row I try to get her to tick over with my foot on throttle if course till I can sort her out. Thinking now. Could the diesel not be getting heated properly for ignition. Not sure how it works after starting. Does it still need preheating on every cycle even when running ? Do u know what I mean ????? Lol

 

[D4nny8oy]

The glowplugs do continue to operate for a fair while after the initial cold-start, so if your running problems don't improve until it's properly warm, then it might be worth checking them to see which are faulty.

Only thing is, due to the design of the inlet manifold/camcover, they're a pain to get to and even harder to change (replacing number 1 glowplug involves removing the pump!).

Fortunately testing them is easy- in your pics in post #22, the glowplug relay unit is that black box to the left of the fuel filter on the bulkhead. There will be two multiplugs in the bottom, you want the one with only 4 wires in it- normally coloured grey/red, grey/green, grey/yellow and grey/black. Each individual wire supplies one of the glowplugs, which are grounded through their bodies to earth. All you need to do is disconnect the multiplug and perform a basic resistance test on each wire to earth- good glowplugs are around 1-5 Ohms, if any are substantially higher or even O.C., they're dead.

Once you've established which are duff, you can note the wire colour and trace it to it's glowplug (you can just see the other end of the wire as it enters the connector on the glowplug itself).

 

[themadwelshman]

Ok cool. Hopefully day off tomorrow so I will test them. Cheers mate. On another note anyway of posting a video ? There something really weird happening by one of the injectors thought it would be easier to film it and post. What do you think ?

 

[D4nny8oy]

Only options I can think of are uploading it to Youtube or Photobucket, then posting the link on here.

What are you getting? Fluid leakage?

 

[themadwelshman]

Ok mate. Thanks for that. Yes I think it's leakage or an air problems. Bubbles around the injector. I'll post online tomorrow hopefully after work. Cheers mate.

 

[D4nny8oy]

Bubbles can be simply caused by the heat from the engine boiling through any fluid around the injector hole. Best to clean it all thoroughly with brake cleaner and blow it out with an air line if possible, then run it up again.

 

[themadwelshman]

K mate thanks for that. Big job on for next couple of days so will do on weekend and let you know how it goes. Cheers bud

 

[themadwelshman]

Update. I think the oil pump has gone ? Have emptied the oil and filled with fresh. Cleaned filler cap before hand and been running engine for quite some time now and the cap is still almost dry. Assuming oil isn't getting to top of engine ??? Serious metal knock/slap noise sounds like a really loud tappet noise. have had cover off but can't see anywhere to adjust tappets ? Any help much appreciated. Thinking of needing a new engine now. Don't know if it's worth it. Payed £250 for it with 11 months mot and 6 months tax. Mmmmmmmm

 

[D4nny8oy]

Firstly, does the red oil pressure warning lamp come on with the ignition, then go out a sec or two after starting? If it comes on but doesn't go out, you've no oil pressure... but why it's happened suddenly I don't know, unless you've somehow done something wrong while changing the oil? They aren't known for oil pump issues.

Did it look as if there was fresh oil around the cam when you took the cover off? You won't find an easy way of adjusting the tappets as they use a bucket and shim set-up. Only way to change the clearances is to remove the shim and fit the required size in it's place.

 

[themadwelshman]

Light does come on and go out mate as per normal. Only changed the oil cause the other stuff was black and sludgy in the manifold of the rocker cover. It was making a slight tappets noise before but nothing serious so thought some new fresh oil might hush it up. The noise that's there now started all of a sudden last night. All day fine did a 7 mile trip last night then when I started her up to return home the noise was there from the starting. Shall I do a recording of the sound and post so you can eat it for yourself ???

 

[themadwelshman]

Hear not eat Soz lol.

 

[themadwelshman]

Update on idling

Have been to garage and he's cleared the codes. Been driving about a week now with no change to van. Been back to garage and no codes stored. WTF. Now have a very serious knocking sound in the engine and she still won't tick over and won't do low speeds in high hear. Have to stay in third in all 30 zones along with the noise coming from the engine now getting some serious looks. NOW WHAT DO I DO ????????? I can email anyone a sound file of the engine noise of required. Pm me your details. Many thanks in advance.