Tuning 4x4 Turbo

[andyholli]

Another inspiring issue of Practical Performance Car dropped onto the mat..

So all that space above and behind the rear axle could be put to good use, I'm thinking.

Standard carb blow through 6psi to make installation simple. (ish) - maybe plumb in an intercooler alongside the water rad. Need more fuel pressure than the mechanical pump can deliver so maybe switch tanks too. Retarded ignition and carb mods necessary but..

I'm tempted by the challenge (challenging for me, anyway). But would the effort produce a better car?
I like the way our Panda fits into life undemandingly and zips about without fuss currently, would this develop it in the wrong direction?

What do you think?:yum:

 

[Alixcompo]

Oddly enough I'm a bit of a std Panda engine man meself.

Change everything else but I really like the FIRE lump

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Well it would appear relatively easy enough to install, but as you say ignition and carb mods would be a cert. I would be hesitant to do it on a 4x4 though just because of the extra weight to start with, unless you want to go really fast down some lanes - and maybe smash it off on a rock

 

[Didge3]

I've wanted to turbo a Panda for a while but keep going back and fourth between just swapping the engine for a 1242 which would probably be easier and possibly cheaper than Turbo'ing but its been done obviously.
The problem with turbo'ing as far as I can see, getting the carb to seal the boost and getting more fuel once the engine comes on boost so it doesn't lean out, oh and lowering the compression so it doesn't explode.

I'd love a turbo 750 but even with a decent amount of boost its never going to be powerful so I can't see it being worth while.... Love to try though

 

[andyholli]

Well it would appear relatively easy enough to install, but as you say ignition and carb mods would be a cert. I would be hesitant to do it on a 4x4 though just because of the extra weight to start with, unless you want to go really fast down some lanes - and maybe smash it off on a rock

I see what you're saying Andy, - because of the axle's underslung position we get the rear silencer tucked up under the floor.. Swap that power sapping box for a power boosting turbine and no difference in ground clearance I'm thinking.

Torque boost rather than power increase would be my goal, and then the half Snatch trailer laden with batteries and motors would be barely noticeable..

Or forget all that and just sling a tent in the boot.

 

[Giacosa]

I've wanted to turbo a Panda for a while but keep going back and fourth between just swapping the engine for a 1242 which would probably be easier and possibly cheaper than Turbo'ing but its been done obviously.
The problem with turbo'ing as far as I can see, getting the carb to seal the boost and getting more fuel once the engine comes on boost so it doesn't lean out, oh and lowering the compression so it doesn't explode.

I'd love a turbo 750 but even with a decent amount of boost its never going to be powerful so I can't see it being worth while.... Love to try though

With regards to the carburetor and Turbos isn't it the done thing to put it in a sealed box so that pressure is equalized on both sides of the carbs gaskets.

Saw this in the newsagents today. Wasn't there an article like this in retro cars featuring the same pug. Was suprised at how similar the article is

 

[Didge3]

With regards to the carburetor and Turbos isn't it the done thing to put it in a sealed box so that pressure is equalized on both sides of the carbs gaskets.

Some people do it that way yes but makes adjustments to the carb basically impossible because its in a sealed box, this makes setting up the engine with its new turbocharger difficult because when it comes to getting the fueling right you need to get it out of the sealed box somehow and can't test to see if it works until you put it back into its sealed box.

Another way of not really modding the carb is to use a draw-through setup, where the turbo is situated downstream of your carb, this way the carb isn't pressurised so it works as normal, the only problem with this is you can't use an intercooler because it'll condense your air/fuel mix AND by doing it this way your putting fuel through the turbo which causes issues with the bearings or something so you have to get a special turbo, I think its carbon or something
This is all before the problem of making it understand when the engine has hit boost and therefore put more fuel in to compensate for the sudden increase of air.

There was someone who turbo'd a 999cc carbed FIRE and did so without many problems, the throttle and choke shafts need sealing and the float might need replacing so it doesn't cave in on itself with the boost, other than this the stock carb should hold about 20psi supposedly
I don't know how he made it richen the mixture when it came on boost. I'll dig out the website in a jiffy hang on
Here it is

 

[fingers99]

One thing turbos do is increase torque remarkably. Given that the 4x4 stuff on Pandas isn't that strong to begin with.......

Plenty of room for a "real" turbo install and lots of folk have done it on the 1108 engine.

 

[Dragon Man]

i think the 4x4 prop shaft would take quite a bit.. looking at bex's one its done 158k miles and only failed due to the rubber boots perishing. well technically it never failed.. as it still worked. however it would have failed eventually.

i cant speak for the rear axle though. i have never had one to bits or even seen inside one so i cant say with that.

lets not go there with the gear box...

 

[nitro_warrior]

i think the 4x4 prop shaft would take quite a bit.. looking at bex's one its done 158k miles and only failed due to the rubber boots perishing. well technically it never failed.. as it still worked. however it would have failed eventually.

i cant speak for the rear axle though. i have never had one to bits or even seen inside one so i cant say with that.

lets not go there with the gear box...

I agree, but not about the gearbox!... on a previous poll I established that the only person who had broken a gearbox through power/abuse was me. And to be fair it wasn't even the gearbox, it was the differential that shattered when I shock loaded it from being cross-axled. Gearbox problems all seem to be down to oil leaking out when the seals go. Please step in if any of you lot have stripped teeth or sustained any other power related damage.

 

[nitro_warrior]

Also the only thing I would add (this has been a long term pipe dream for me - fast 4x4 road Panda turbo'd or otherwise).

Make it permanent 4wd for use on the road by fitting a viscous coupling.

Not sure what from, Justy AWD would make sense. I guess a Freelander's would be a bit big, but they are more common on fleabay.

 

[lewey]

The 2004 onwards Panda 4x4s have permanent 4WD with viscous coupling...

 

[andyholli]

Woah there men!
Remember we've been here before- reinventing the Impreza turbo.
Didge, that link is brilliant but ends with the conclusion that efi not carb is the easy way to go.
Damn him, I think he's right. So a more sensible starting point would be an injected car. - crank sensor, trigger wheel, fuel pump/tank/pipes, are all there already.

There's something about the rear mounting of the turbo that appeals to me. Not sure what it is but I did think one way to get the boosted air to the engine could be over the roof.. Up the C-pillar through a roof mounted intercooler and into the snorkel.��

 

[fingers99]

By the way, the PPC story is a bit of a con on 2 scores. It's a reprint of an article they published 4 or 5 years ago (con 1). A month after first publication, the owner wrote in to remind them that one reason the car went so well was that it ran on (and I can't remember which) LPG or E85 (con 2).

Damn sure most of the stuff in this month by the Formula Ford pilot (the guy who looks like a scruffy version of Sebastian Vettel) has been in before, too.

 

[Giacosa]

By the way, the PPC story is a bit of a con on 2 scores. It's a reprint of an article they published 4 or 5 years ago (con 1). A month after first publication, the owner wrote in to remind them that one reason the car went so well was that it ran on (and I can't remember which) LPG or E85 (con 2).

Damn sure most of the stuff in this month by the Formula Ford pilot (the guy who looks like a scruffy version of Sebastian Vettel) has been in before, too.

I was sure i'd seen it before. Laziness or failure to produce enough material I wonder.

 

[fingers99]

You'd think lazyness creeps in somewhere. Always struck me as odd, for example, that the reviews of stuff seem pointed in a weird direction: welding helmets with a single Speedglass, Imperial 3/4" socket sets, gasless MIG welders, etc. As though they're either taken from Farmer's Weekly or nobody wants to send them stuff to review!