Technical 4x4 anti roll bar issue.

[xsparky]

Evening all, long time no see, currently back in the fold with Panda number 4.
2013 1.3 multijet 4x4. Bought from a dealer with a 30 day warranty that has 6 days to go. Thought I'd better get up on the ramps and check underneath for diff leaks etc, now that I have several hundred miles on it. The first thing I spotted was a broken bracket on the rear subframe, hmmm I think to myself " should this model have a rear anti roll bar?" doing a quick check indicated that rear anti roll bars were indeed a thing on this model. This is particularly galling because I knew sub frame rot was an issue on these and made a point of asking the dealer to confirm that it had been checked before I travelled two hours to see it.
My question is were all 4x4's of this vintage fitted with rear anti roll bars ? Because when I phone tomorrow to complain, I don't want them trying to weasel out of it by saying they were an option and you don't need it. My view is that if the factory fitted them to all cars, that they have supplied a vehicle that doesn't meet the spec that it left the factory with, and I want a fix or a refund.
Cheers Mike

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

Good idea!

On the bottom of the forum banner you've got the ePER link. In general it's the FIAT spare catalogue, but with the help of the VIN you can also decode what options have been installed in the car at the factory

Sometimes finding the option description can be tricky, but internet is usually very helpful

Then, when you search ePER with the VIN, it shows only the parts that were fitted at the factory to your vehicle:

So finding the category where the roll bar should be shall tell you the thruth

Search window is top left of the screen.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Now you ask Im not certain, but I dont think there is an antil roll bar on mine Its 2019. The sub fame is different to teh 1.2 but the axle is visually the same set up.

 

[Panda IIs]

Evening all, long time no see, currently back in the fold with Panda number 4.
2013 1.3 multijet 4x4. Bought from a dealer with a 30 day warranty that has 6 days to go. Thought I'd better get up on the ramps and check underneath for diff leaks etc, now that I have several hundred miles on it. The first thing I spotted was a broken bracket on the rear subframe, hmmm I think to myself " should this model have a rear anti roll bar?" doing a quick check indicated that rear anti roll bars were indeed a thing on this model. This is particularly galling because I knew sub frame rot was an issue on these and made a point of asking the dealer to confirm that it had been checked before I travelled two hours to see it.
My question is were all 4x4's of this vintage fitted with rear anti roll bars ? Because when I phone tomorrow to complain, I don't want them trying to weasel out of it by saying they were an option and you don't need it. My view is that if the factory fitted them to all cars, that they have supplied a vehicle that doesn't meet the spec that it left the factory with, and I want a fix or a refund.
Cheers Mike

Not sure about that; I've a 63 plate TA 4x4 Over the 7 plus years in my ownership I've done rear discs and pads, shocks and changed diff oil and don't recall wrestling with a rear anti roll bar. But maybe I'm just unobservant? I'm away from the car at the moment so can't check. Somewhere I've some photos of the underside I'll explore. @Herts Hillhopper may be able to contribute as he has a multijet version.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I’ll have to check but I’m pretty sure there are no antiroll bars on any (312) Panda? The 2WD cars have a v-section beam that connects between the suspension arms at either side, and that torsion beam acts as an anti roll bar. The 4x4 uses a different beam which is a closed tube, so stronger but still acts as a torsion beam. Because it’s a closed tube rather than (effectively) a bit of angle iron, it also resists rust a little better. There is no rear subframe.

But I’ll take a look… and no doubt prove myself wrong!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

No antiroll bar here… the part labelled 1 is the torsion tube I mentioned. Parts 6 and 7 are what the rear diff hangs from, via a pair of brackets (one shown) labelled 8

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The rest of the 4x4 rear suspension…

 

[Panda IIs]

Phew; haven't lost it yet! I did find a couple of photos that were taken while on an MOT lift - they're not the greatest quality but reflect these drawings.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The older 169 4x4 used a different (more expensive and technically cleverer) rear suspension that had two separate trailing arms, so was more truly independent rear suspension. It though did have a rear anti roll bar, connected to the arms via stubby little drop links.

 

[xsparky]

Thanks all for responses, anti roll bars have definitely been fitted to some 4x4's that I've watched videos of regarding sub frame issues.
My feeling is that mine must have had a bar fitted originally otherwise the brackets wouldn't be there, also I think it would only have corroded so badly if it had a bar in the bracket to clog up with mud. Seems like it may only have been certain models though..

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Thanks all for responses, anti roll bars have definitely been fitted to some 4x4's that I've watched videos of regarding sub frame issues.
My feeling is that mine must have had a bar fitted originally otherwise the brackets wouldn't be there, also I think it would only have corroded so badly if it had a bar in the bracket to clog up with mud. Seems like it may only have been certain models though..

On the older (169) model? Or post 2012 cars? There’s not a rear subframe in the post 2012 (312 or 319) models…

 

[xsparky]

On the older (169) model? Or post 2012 cars? There’s not a rear subframe in the post 2012 (312 or 319) models…

Right, I can see where I'm going wrong here, thanks for clarifying, I've had 141's and 169's before and assumed that subsequent years were all the same mechanically the examples I was looking at were around 2008.
Also I put my vin in per as suggested and it's not showing arb's, so other than a missing bump stop and the mystery torn off bracket, less cause for complaint than I thought.

 

[xsparky]

Hello,

Good idea!

On the bottom of the forum banner you've got the ePER link. In general it's the FIAT spare catalogue, but with the help of the VIN you can also decode what options have been installed in the car at the factory

Sometimes finding the option description can be tricky, but internet is usually very helpful

Then, when you search ePER with the VIN, it shows only the parts that were fitted at the factory to your vehicle:

View attachment 459711

So finding the category where the roll bar should be shall tell you the thruth

Search window is top left of the screen.

Thanks, checked eper against my vin and not showing arb, so looks like I'm worrying unnecessarily

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Another useful outcome from this great forum. Glad you got the answers…