Technical 2014 4x4 multijet no crank no start

[jonnyboy54321]

Hi all. Have done a search!

A little while ago I bought a 2014 4x4 multijet. Non-runner with a snapped chain. Trailered it back and parked up as I sourced parts. Got a s/h known good low mileage engine - complete just needed ancilliaries and my original loom. Swapped the lump into the car and she wouldnt crank. I suspected I had made a mess of the starter connections, got my pal (mechanic) to do some testing as I struggled to get my hands up there (lol). He worked out that there was no starter wiring fault - the starter was disabled. Did a work around with the relay and got it to crank but no start. We worked out theres a lift pump in the tank - it wasnt being energised. Again, a workaround via relay bridging. Still no start. (I know about the clutch pedal btw). I then recalled that I had, very tiredly, inadvertantly touched the ecu body when tightening the positive battery terminal and therefore feared the worst. When plugged with with snapon the car was showing a engine management code P0641-49 Sensor Supply 1 - internal electronic failure. Did some research, asked some in questions in Fiat circles and on FB, and the consensus was that I had foobarred the ECU. Spoke to a few ecu companies, only one said they could test it, off it went. Got a message to say testing was inconclusive - suspected faulty component but unclear which so the solution was to clone the ecu. They are a real rare one, 55257739 - I eventually found one that was known okay and took it to said repair company (the plan was actually just to swap out the ecu/cluster/locks/keys/bcm from the donor car as it was a lot cheaper, and quicker for me to sort, but they couldnt find the key so not an option). They called after a couple of hours "struggling to clone it but solution is to swap out data chip from your knackered ECU into the replacement, have we your permission?". I questioned if it would definitely work, "yes it will, just leave it 36/48 hrs before you try it. for the sealant to set". Picked it up, told by them "100% went okay, you will be fine".
Reassembled the car (incredibly carefully!!!). No crank, no lift pump prime no start. Calmed down after a while. Code P0641-49 still present, but now joined by these:-

Instrument panel U1733-87 lost comm with CTM
Body Computer B10AA-4A Check configuration failed - incorrect component installed
U1733-87 CTM node on B CAN missing a message
B12A6 -13 Daylights front parking light right open circuit
Controlled Coupling Module C2005-68 ELD from brake system fail - event information


My pal is sure sure the only present code before we pulled and sent off the ecu was the P0641-49 Engine management one. My suspicion is that there is now some sort of non-coded or immobiliser issue between the replacement ecu and the car - so I am in a worse position than I was, I do have the original ecu but the data chip is out of it so its not like I can swap it back and try it.

Clearly the "faulty ecu" is a red herring - and the original code/no start etc is something else entirely.

I am tearing my hair out at this point - need to work through but don't know what else the cause could be, electronickery isn't my thing tbh.


Anyone have any pointers? I will plug in with MES as soon as I can get it to run on wifes laptop.


Thanks


John

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all. Have done a search!

A little while ago I bought a 2014 4x4 multijet. Non-runner with a snapped chain. Trailered it back and parked up as I sourced parts. Got a s/h known good low mileage engine - complete just needed ancilliaries and my original loom. Swapped the lump into the car and she wouldnt crank. I suspected I had made a mess of the starter connections, got my pal (mechanic) to do some testing as I struggled to get my hands up there (lol). He worked out that there was no starter wiring fault - the starter was disabled. Did a work around with the relay and got it to crank but no start. We worked out theres a lift pump in the tank - it wasnt being energised. Again, a workaround via relay bridging. Still no start. (I know about the clutch pedal btw). I then recalled that I had, very tiredly, inadvertantly touched the ecu body when tightening the positive battery terminal and therefore feared the worst. When plugged with with snapon the car was showing a engine management code P0641-49 Sensor Supply 1 - internal electronic failure. Did some research, asked some in questions in Fiat circles and on FB, and the consensus was that I had foobarred the ECU. Spoke to a few ecu companies, only one said they could test it, off it went. Got a message to say testing was inconclusive - suspected faulty component but unclear which so the solution was to clone the ecu. They are a real rare one, 55257739 - I eventually found one that was known okay and took it to said repair company (the plan was actually just to swap out the ecu/cluster/locks/keys/bcm from the donor car as it was a lot cheaper, and quicker for me to sort, but they couldnt find the key so not an option). They called after a couple of hours "struggling to clone it but solution is to swap out data chip from your knackered ECU into the replacement, have we your permission?". I questioned if it would definitely work, "yes it will, just leave it 36/48 hrs before you try it. for the sealant to set". Picked it up, told by them "100% went okay, you will be fine".
Reassembled the car (incredibly carefully!!!). No crank, no lift pump prime no start. Calmed down after a while. Code P0641-49 still present, but now joined by these:-

Instrument panel U1733-87 lost comm with CTM
Body Computer B10AA-4A Check configuration failed - incorrect component installed
U1733-87 CTM node on B CAN missing a message
B12A6 -13 Daylights front parking light right open circuit
Controlled Coupling Module C2005-68 ELD from brake system fail - event information


My pal is sure sure the only present code before we pulled and sent off the ecu was the P0641-49 Engine management one. My suspicion is that there is now some sort of non-coded or immobiliser issue between the replacement ecu and the car - so I am in a worse position than I was, I do have the original ecu but the data chip is out of it so its not like I can swap it back and try it.

Clearly the "faulty ecu" is a red herring - and the original code/no start etc is something else entirely.

I am tearing my hair out at this point - need to work through but don't know what else the cause could be, electronickery isn't my thing tbh.


Anyone have any pointers? I will plug in with MES as soon as I can get it to run on wifes laptop.


Thanks


John

Sounds like ECU "specialist" has made matters worse. Any redress?
Did they back up the data before they played with it?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Poss cause of the fuel pump issue is the fuel cutoff - I don’t know if that’s still a ‘mechanical’ reset (used to be a push button on top of a unit - and still is in my Landy). I don’t recall seeing one in my current (2018) diesel 4x4 so think it’s now something that needs resetting via MES?

Also, if the ECU is not the one originally in the car, then there’s a chance if several ‘security related’ errors, and systems designed to immobilised the car as result.

We’ve seen in several other posts that spurious (and usually wrong) error codes are generated when voltages are low (that ELD one is a common one when the battery voltage is low) , earth returns weak or wires broken or disconnected… I suspect you’ll eventually find that to be your issue. No help really, sorry!

Side question: what mileage was it when the chain snapped? I’m getting slightly nervous about the engine durability having seen another post here today about failing/failed timing chains.

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Sounds like ECU "specialist" has made matters worse. Any redress?
Did they back up the data before they played with it?

Will be speaking to them tomorrow, rest assured. Unsure about data backup.

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Poss cause of the fuel pump issue is the fuel cutoff - I don’t know if that’s still a ‘mechanical’ reset (used to be a push button on top of a unit - and still is in my Landy). I don’t recall seeing one in my current (2018) diesel 4x4 so think it’s now something that needs resetting via MES?

Also, if the ECU is not the one originally in the car, then there’s a chance if several ‘security related’ errors, and systems designed to immobilised the car as result.

We’ve seen in several other posts that spurious (and usually wrong) error codes are generated when voltages are low (that ELD one is a common one when the battery voltage is low) , earth returns weak or wires broken or disconnected… I suspect you’ll eventually find that to be your issue. No help really, sorry!

Side question: what mileage was it when the chain snapped? I’m getting slightly nervous about the engine durability having seen another post here today about failing/failed timing chains.

Would the fuel pump cutoff cause a no-crank situation? (I seem to recall that my pal bypassed the starter inhibitor to get it to crank which it did well off the key). Think battery is ok but will of course check. Also intend to use a jump lead to bypass any earth issues. Mileage was 117k.

 

[Panda IIs]

Hi all. Have done a search!

A little while ago I bought a 2014 4x4 multijet. Non-runner with a snapped chain. Trailered it back and parked up as I sourced parts. Got a s/h known good low mileage engine - complete just needed ancilliaries and my original loom. Swapped the lump into the car and she wouldnt crank. I suspected I had made a mess of the starter connections, got my pal (mechanic) to do some testing as I struggled to get my hands up there (lol). He worked out that there was no starter wiring fault - the starter was disabled. Did a work around with the relay and got it to crank but no start. We worked out theres a lift pump in the tank - it wasnt being energised. Again, a workaround via relay bridging. Still no start. (I know about the clutch pedal btw). I then recalled that I had, very tiredly, inadvertantly touched the ecu body when tightening the positive battery terminal and therefore feared the worst. When plugged with with snapon the car was showing a engine management code P0641-49 Sensor Supply 1 - internal electronic failure. Did some research, asked some in questions in Fiat circles and on FB, and the consensus was that I had foobarred the ECU. Spoke to a few ecu companies, only one said they could test it, off it went. Got a message to say testing was inconclusive - suspected faulty component but unclear which so the solution was to clone the ecu. They are a real rare one, 55257739 - I eventually found one that was known okay and took it to said repair company (the plan was actually just to swap out the ecu/cluster/locks/keys/bcm from the donor car as it was a lot cheaper, and quicker for me to sort, but they couldnt find the key so not an option). They called after a couple of hours "struggling to clone it but solution is to swap out data chip from your knackered ECU into the replacement, have we your permission?". I questioned if it would definitely work, "yes it will, just leave it 36/48 hrs before you try it. for the sealant to set". Picked it up, told by them "100% went okay, you will be fine".
Reassembled the car (incredibly carefully!!!). No crank, no lift pump prime no start. Calmed down after a while. Code P0641-49 still present, but now joined by these:-

Instrument panel U1733-87 lost comm with CTM
Body Computer B10AA-4A Check configuration failed - incorrect component installed
U1733-87 CTM node on B CAN missing a message
B12A6 -13 Daylights front parking light right open circuit
Controlled Coupling Module C2005-68 ELD from brake system fail - event information


My pal is sure sure the only present code before we pulled and sent off the ecu was the P0641-49 Engine management one. My suspicion is that there is now some sort of non-coded or immobiliser issue between the replacement ecu and the car - so I am in a worse position than I was, I do have the original ecu but the data chip is out of it so its not like I can swap it back and try it.

Clearly the "faulty ecu" is a red herring - and the original code/no start etc is something else entirely.

I am tearing my hair out at this point - need to work through but don't know what else the cause could be, electronickery isn't my thing tbh.


Anyone have any pointers? I will plug in with MES as soon as I can get it to run on wifes laptop.


Thanks


John

I can't offer any specific ECU related advice, however, my experience of a failed Blue and Me module plus having new remotes added to the system tells me that if you swap out the ECU I would almost certainly expect to have to be reprogramming something! You hear horror stories about failed ECUs etc but as we know on here low volts (from even apparently charged batteries) cause a whole raft of issues.

My suspicion would be that the initial no-crank situation was immobiliser related and the subsequent ECU swap has compounded "stuff". Sorry can't be more positive that that!

 

[jonnyboy54321]

I can't offer any specific ECU related advice, however, my experience of a failed Blue and Me module plus having new remotes added to the system tells me that if you swap out the ECU I would almost certainly expect to have to be reprogramming something! You hear horror stories about failed ECUs etc but as we know on here low volts (from even apparently charged batteries) cause a whole raft of issues.

My suspicion would be that the initial no-crank situation was immobiliser related and the subsequent ECU swap has compounded "stuff". Sorry can't be more positive that that!

So this car has the Blue and Me module already removed and in the boot (previous owner) - I do wonder if thats something to do with some of the codes that are coming up now (because it is a different ecu)

 

[Panda IIs]

So (for reference) the Blue & Me (B&M) module is normally located under the driver's seat in RHD versions. Failure is indicated by a flashing Odometer and often characterised by a significant parasitic battery drain (flat battery in 2-3 days if car not used in my experience).

Replacing the B&M with a so called "virgin" module requires a proxy realignment (provides an IP address to the Body control Module - programming). Again, my experience, using a secondhand B&M module it was plug and play. Some have said that repaired B&M modules come back plug and play and others require programming.

With these experiences in mind and the tooing and froing that appears to have gone on with your cars ECU I would wonder whether this is the root cause of your current issues? I suspect that the original root cause (crank no fire) may have just been a low volts or immobiliser issue but who knows it seems many variables have been changed now.

I have limited experience with auto electronics and I am ignorant of the capability of MES but it seems to me that some professional intervention may be a good call at this stage?

Just having codes does not necessarily point you at the root cause...

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Does anyone know, specifically, what will prevent a 2014 panda cranking? We know the starter circuitry works as bypassed the inhibitor. I know about clutch pedal - anything else?

Also, does anyone with a panda of this age know if there should be an immobiliser light that illuminates and then extinguishes on the dash? Like a padlock symbol.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Edit!
There is padlock light, yes. But, it only illuminates if the car can’t ‘read’ the key.
In the photo, it’s below the oil can and above the engine fault light ( but not turned on)

No need to press the clutch to start (there’s no start inhibit on the Panda clutch)

 

[varesecrazy]

Does anyone know, specifically, what will prevent a 2014 panda cranking? We know the starter circuitry works as bypassed the inhibitor. I know about clutch pedal - anything else?

Also, does anyone with a panda of this age know if there should be an immobiliser light that illuminates and then extinguishes on the dash? Like a padlock symbol.

IMMOB is NOT related..

It would Crank, but supply no FUEL

SO, do the dash lights Dim as you turn the key

No dimming means no power to starter

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

IMMOB is NOT related..

It would Crank, but supply no FUEL

SO, do the dash lights Dim as you turn the key

No dimming means no power to starter

I'm pretty sure the dash lights are LED, so probably don't dim under load... but might be wrong!

 

[varesecrazy]

I'm pretty sure the dash lights are LED, so probably don't dim under load... but might be wrong!

Valid question..

Not sure TBH

On a previous FIAT I had a bad ignition switch sending no starter signal

Lights staying bright was a big clue