Technical 1999 Fiat Ducato 2.8 idtd - replacing glow plug relay

[JimmyTheGent79]

Hello Everyone and Thank You for allowing Me to join this group.
Basically My neighbour Dave has the above vehicle, it's a Gazelle Motorhome on a Fiat Ducato 2 chassis with the Iveco 8140.43 2.8 idtd Engine.
Himself and his lovely wife Judith use the Camper to tow a Willis Jeep and attend WW2 Reenactments as Characters wearing the full attire, Uniforms etc.
I'm ex British Army ( Infantry ) and am currently renovating a 1990 JaguarSport XJR-S 6.0l V12 Auto but try and help Dave out when I can ( He's stubborn and wants to do everything Himself unfortunately He's not getting any Younger and hasn't accepted it, YET)
I'm here to soak up the knowledge and apply it for Dave on His Motorhome.
The issue I'm looking into is the GLOW PLUG Relay which is making a ticking noise and is smoking a bit according to Dave.
Having inspected the engine bay and reading up on forums I've decided to replace the flame/glow plug type thingy, the relay and maybe the wax bit on the pump and relay but one step at a time.
Any Info, Experience or help would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thank's
Jimmy Leather.

 

[bugsymike]

Hello Everyone and Thank You for allowing Me to join this group.
Basically My neighbour Dave has the above vehicle, it's a Gazelle Motorhome on a Fiat Ducato 2 chassis with the Iveco 8140.43 2.8 idtd Engine.
Himself and his lovely wife Judith use the Camper to tow a Willis Jeep and attend WW2 Reenactments as Characters wearing the full attire, Uniforms etc.
I'm ex British Army ( Infantry ) and am currently renovating a 1990 JaguarSport XJR-S 6.0l V12 Auto but try and help Dave out when I can ( He's stubborn and wants to do everything Himself unfortunately He's not getting any Younger and hasn't accepted it, YET)
I'm here to soak up the knowledge and apply it for Dave on His Motorhome.
The issue I'm looking into is the GLOW PLUG Relay which is making a ticking noise and is smoking a bit according to Dave.
Having inspected the engine bay and reading up on forums I've decided to replace the flame/glow plug type thingy, the relay and maybe the wax bit on the pump and relay but one step at a time.
Any Info, Experience or help would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thank's
Jimmy Leather.

Just so we are clear is the vehicle running , but hard to start?
The reason I ask is unless in exceptionally cold weather I have not needed the flame heater side, I have run several Iveco Daily's with that engine and even put a 1997 Fiat Ducato 2.8 idtd one in a boat, even with ice around the gunnels in mid winter it always started instantly so I didn't even need to connect the wire for the flame heater or the wax stat on the injector pump which I understand advances the timing slightly when cold.
I appreciate the temp is a lot milder where I am, but if problem is current then the issue may be elsewhere.
However @Communicator if available, has a great deal of relevant knowledge re the function and wiring etc. of those items.
Re the flame heater operation , in basic terms it uses diesel from the injector return pipe and when the flame heater is operating it heats an element red hot and should then open a valve allowing diesel to drop onto the element and catch fire so warming the air in the inlet manifold to aid ignition.
I had a similar system on old Perkins 4.108 engines in Bedford and transit vans many years ago.
Should the issue prove to be elsewhere, then any history of work done on vehicle may be of use also.

 

[Communicator]

Just so we are clear is the vehicle running , but hard to start?
The reason I ask is unless in exceptionally cold weather I have not needed the flame heater side, I have run several Iveco Daily's with that engine and even put a 1997 Fiat Ducato 2.8 idtd one in a boat, even with ice around the gunnels in mid winter it always started instantly so I didn't even need to connect the wire for the flame heater or the wax stat on the injector pump which I understand advances the timing slightly when cold.
I appreciate the temp is a lot milder where I am, but if problem is current then the issue may be elsewhere.
However @Communicator if available, has a great deal of relevant knowledge re the function and wiring etc. of those items.
Re the flame heater operation , in basic terms it uses diesel from the injector return pipe and when the flame heater is operating it heats an element red hot and should then open a valve allowing diesel to drop onto the element and catch fire so warming the air in the inlet manifold to aid ignition.
I had a similar system on old Perkins 4.108 engines in Bedford and transit vans many years ago.
Should the issue prove to be elsewhere, then any history of work done on vehicle may be of use also.

I am afraid that the esteemed member @bugsymike is too generous in crediting me with such, knowledge. I would like to aquire a diagram for the flame starter wiring in the 2.8idTD and other similarly equipped engines, but have yet to succede in my quest. On my 2.8jtd the flame starter is controlled by the ECU, but in the 2.8idTD this function is carried out by a special controller, similar to that used for glowplugs. Sourcing this latter item may be a problem. Perhaps the OP would be sufficiently public spirited to locate the part number and post it on this forum? I have read that flame starters are used on agricultural, and contracting plant, so there should be come demand for the controller.

 

[bugsymike]

I am afraid that the esteemed member @bugsymike is too generous in crediting me with such, knowledge. I would like to aquire a diagram for the flame starter wiring in the 2.8idTD and other similarly equipped engines, but have yet to succede in my quest. On my 2.8jtd the flame starter is controlled by the ECU, but in the 2.8idTD this function is carried out by a special controller, similar to that used for glowplugs. Sourcing this latter item may be a problem. Perhaps the OP would be sufficiently public spirited to locate the part number and post it on this forum? I have read that flame starters are used on agricultural, and contracting plant, so there should be come demand for the controller.

I had a dig through some old diesel manuals, but could only find ones with circuit diagrams using heater plugs and a timer box/relay pre ECU control early 90s.
Somewhere in my garage I have the heater plug timer for a 504 Peugeot Diesel, that was indirect injection so had four heater plugs.
On the old Mk 1 Transits and Bedford CF both with the Perkins 4.108 engine they used the flame start system although slightly more basic version than the Fiat Ducato one and from memory there was no timer for their flame start device, it simply brought a light up on dash when the ignition was put into the first part of the spring loaded position where you waited for 30 seconds and then turned the key the last bit to activate the starter. Apart from a fuse in the circuit I don't think any relay or timer was required as relay wise the amperage is much less than needed to work four heater plugs, the last time I tested one of those with an amp meter it drained around 10 amps, so four would need a relay capable of handling around 50 amps or so.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hello Everyone and Thank You for allowing Me to join this group.
Basically My neighbour Dave has the above vehicle, it's a Gazelle Motorhome on a Fiat Ducato 2 chassis with the Iveco 8140.43 2.8 idtd Engine.
Himself and his lovely wife Judith use the Camper to tow a Willis Jeep and attend WW2 Reenactments as Characters wearing the full attire, Uniforms etc.
I'm ex British Army ( Infantry ) and am currently renovating a 1990 JaguarSport XJR-S 6.0l V12 Auto but try and help Dave out when I can ( He's stubborn and wants to do everything Himself unfortunately He's not getting any Younger and hasn't accepted it, YET)
I'm here to soak up the knowledge and apply it for Dave on His Motorhome.
The issue I'm looking into is the GLOW PLUG Relay which is making a ticking noise and is smoking a bit according to Dave.
Having inspected the engine bay and reading up on forums I've decided to replace the flame/glow plug type thingy, the relay and maybe the wax bit on the pump and relay but one step at a time.
Any Info, Experience or help would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thank's
Jimmy

Hi and welcome Jimmy

Those early TD's are a mystery to me, my old Ducato was a 2500 atmo, 10 years older

The gist of that era was various motors were used.. Many NOT from "FIAT"

Sofim and VM were certainly of that era

So there may well be a sister vehicle that used the same era of kit..


I'VECO seems an obvious choice... But not my era

Thinking out loud here..

Maybe member @porta has / had relevant experience 25 odd years ago


Good luck with your quest

 

[Communicator]

My first vehicle was a diesel Land Rover purchased in 1964. Turbos were something fitted to racing cars. The engine was indirect injection with four heater plugs wired in series, together with a large series resistor. An indicator bulb was wired in parallel with the resistor. For a cold start, the key was turned to the glowplug position for 10 seconds, then started.
Quite simple and it worked, until the rare event of a plug failing, you could then test along the chain of plugs until you lost the connection to earth. Changing the faulty plug was relatively easy.

 

[porta]

Hello Everyone and Thank You for allowing Me to join this group.
Basically My neighbour Dave has the above vehicle, it's a Gazelle Motorhome on a Fiat Ducato 2 chassis with the Iveco 8140.43 2.8 idtd Engine.
Himself and his lovely wife Judith use the Camper to tow a Willis Jeep and attend WW2 Reenactments as Characters wearing the full attire, Uniforms etc.
I'm ex British Army ( Infantry ) and am currently renovating a 1990 JaguarSport XJR-S 6.0l V12 Auto but try and help Dave out when I can ( He's stubborn and wants to do everything Himself unfortunately He's not getting any Younger and hasn't accepted it, YET)
I'm here to soak up the knowledge and apply it for Dave on His Motorhome.
The issue I'm looking into is the GLOW PLUG Relay which is making a ticking noise and is smoking a bit according to Dave.
Having inspected the engine bay and reading up on forums I've decided to replace the flame/glow plug type thingy, the relay and maybe the wax bit on the pump and relay but one step at a time.
Any Info, Experience or help would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thank's
Jimmy Leather.

Can you take a photo of the offending parts, in situ so I can get some context