Technical 1.9D preheat GP change

[cocogringo]

Hey there!

Iam refreshing an old 2003 doblo cargo and i have hard time findind infos about this car. The preheat glowplugs are completely done , could anyone confirm to me that i have to remove the motor support, in order to remove the intake? It's a hell of a job, i worked on several indirect injection diesel before that, and I did not expect that removing the head cover would take me so much time.....

Otherwise,if any one could tell what is to be watched on this 1.9D, it would be super useful info. There is an oil leak i did not enquire fully about , but if anyone could tell me what is probable...

thanks!

 

[bugsymike]

Hey there!

Iam refreshing an old 2003 doblo cargo and i have hard time findind infos about this car. The preheat glowplugs are completely done , could anyone confirm to me that i have to remove the motor support, in order to remove the intake? It's a hell of a job, i worked on several indirect injection diesel before that, and I did not expect that removing the head cover would take me so much time.....

Otherwise,if any one could tell what is to be watched on this 1.9D, it would be super useful info. There is an oil leak i did not enquire fully about , but if anyone could tell me what is probable...

thanks!

Is that the horrible 1868cc? possible used in some Citroen and Peugeots of that era?
As opposed to the 1910cc Fiat engine which was faster and more economical.

 

[cocogringo]

Yes that's him ....!

 

[bugsymike]

Yes that's him ....!

This uTube video may be of interest.
Basically I had an 03 Fiat Doblo Cargo with the 1868cc (Peugeot DW8 engine) it was fitted with the Lucas Epic injector pump and was total crap, gutless and uneconomical.
I bought it as a non runner after a diagnostic company and another garage gave up on it so I paid £300. I managed to get it going after tracing the fault to an air leak on the fuel line at the tank. Basically they have no lift pump and rely on the Lucas Epic to "suck" the fuel all the way from the back of vehicle. I traced the fault by getting it going from a gravity supply on the wing of van.
I had and have several Doblos 1.3 and 1.6 MJs, I can honestly say I would never buy another 1868cc (DW8) version.

 

[cocogringo]

I am not so sure now, could you tell me which one is it ?
What I find absolutely crazy is the access of the GP, it is so.narrow, completely stuck to the IP, and the support motor. This is plain stupid.
Yeah, I ve heard about how weak Lucas pump are. I am very happy with my VE pump on my Volvo 240. The car is sluggish, but the diesel system is very reliable, and easy to work on.

 

[bugsymike]

View attachment 464249
I am not so sure now, could you tell me which one is it ?
What I find absolutely crazy is the access of the GP, it is so.narrow, completely stuck to the IP, and the support motor. This is plain stupid.
Yeah, I ve heard about how weak Lucas pump are. I am very happy with my VE pump on my Volvo 240. The car is sluggish, but the diesel system is very reliable, and easy to work on.

Looks like the Lucas pump, I agree about the Bosch VE pumps, it looks like at least one heater plug is blocked by the injector pump
The fuel filter looks familiar and no sign of a primer, I assume no electric pump in fuel tank?

 

[cocogringo]

Yes , no primer, no electric pump .....
I will also have to change injectors ring, it's leaking a lot.
I hope I'll be able to prime the system again ....

 

[bugsymike]

Yes , no primer, no electric pump .....
I will also have to change injectors ring, it's leaking a lot.
I hope I'll be able to prime the system again ....

It may be worth fitting a manual "squeezy" primer outboard motor type that some Peugeot's used in the past.
I think you can buy them from car accessory shops.
If it is leaking diesel from the injectors it may just want the different sections of the injector tightening a bit.
What was the original issue with the vehicle, I assumed it ran alright normally but was hard to start on heater plugs from cold.
With that poor Lucas Epic injector pump system relying on sucking the fuel all the way from the tank it encourages air to get in which stops diesels from running very quickly.

 

[cocogringo]

Well, I must say I m at lost.
I am sure now : to change GP #1 and 2 , injection pump MUST be removed .
This is plain crazy !!

 

[cocogringo]

I don't know how to time a Lucas pump.
Wow, if I knew...
I cannot find any documentation.
Maybe I ll just drop it.

 

[bugsymike]

I don't know how to time a Lucas pump.
Wow, if I knew...
I cannot find any documentation.
Maybe I ll just drop it.

It would probably involve changing the cam belt etc. Then lifting injector pump out as a unit with it's mounting brackets once locked in it correct timing position and marked carefully. I did toy with the idea of fitting a Bosch pump at one point before tracing the fault on mine to air getting in the fuel, but involved a different mounting bracket assembly etc.
I tried to find data but books are a little vague on the 1868cc Doblo engine if yours is definately that and Peugeot based, there was a little on it in Fiat Scudos, but to be any benefit I would need the actual engine Series number. If Peugeot it may be DW8.... or WJZ... etc.
Have you actually tested the heater plugs behind the injector pump to confirm they are faulty?
Can you just change the two accessible ones, as a temporary measure?
Once engine is running, does it run well?

 

[cocogringo]

Hello bugsymike, thank you very much for your help. I had been so negative; I cooled off a little bit, and realized I could remove the two reluctant GP by removing injectors and fuel lines. What a relief
I did not test the GP to be honest. Cold starting was really bad (up to 20-30 sec) , I had the preheat light flickering for quite an amount of time after the engine started. The car had been maintained in diverses cheap garages but the owner did nothing himself, and I never found anything about the GP. I am pretty sure they are the culprit. because yes, engine ran well after starting, and hot starting was good.
Now another problem came on. Well, in fact, it was already there, but I did not imagine it would bother me so much. Before I touched anything on that car, there was a tremendous flow of gasoil and I knew it couldn't be related to the return lines, it was too big a leak. I put a new injector washer, tightened the injector to 60nm..it is still leaking. My theory is that the carbone residue (we call that "calamine" in French..) was important in the cylinders whose GP was dead, and after 5 months of immobilization, when the car started again, it went off a bit and the leak appeared. I ordered a miller for 17mm Delphi/bosch injectors, in order to clean the injector housing. I hope I ll be good with that operation - I never saw an old school injector like that leaking itself from the nozzle holder.
If you have any thoughts, let me know!

 

[bugsymike]

Hello bugsymike, thank you very much for your help. I had been so negative; I cooled off a little bit, and realized I could remove the two reluctant GP by removing injectors and fuel lines. What a relief
I did not test the GP to be honest. Cold starting was really bad (up to 20-30 sec) , I had the preheat light flickering for quite an amount of time after the engine started. The car had been maintained in diverses cheap garages but the owner did nothing himself, and I never found anything about the GP. I am pretty sure they are the culprit. because yes, engine ran well after starting, and hot starting was good.
Now another problem came on. Well, in fact, it was already there, but I did not imagine it would bother me so much. Before I touched anything on that car, there was a tremendous flow of gasoil and I knew it couldn't be related to the return lines, it was too big a leak. I put a new injector washer, tightened the injector to 60nm..it is still leaking. My theory is that the carbone residue (we call that "calamine" in French..) was important in the cylinders whose GP was dead, and after 5 months of immobilization, when the car started again, it went off a bit and the leak appeared. I ordered a miller for 17mm Delphi/bosch injectors, in order to clean the injector housing. I hope I ll be good with that operation - I never saw an old school injector like that leaking itself from the nozzle holder.
If you have any thoughts, let me know!

Re the heater plugs I prefer to test them using a suitable amp meter individually (they should use roughly 8 amps when working) it is possible to test for continuity using a simple multimeter set to Ohms as a guide though.
Out of interest you can check on the heater plugs that they are 11volts roughly written on them and the test using a wire across a battery and should glow red quite quickly, be careful as the wire will get hot and burn your fingers, I sometimes use a single "jump lead".
The reason I say check the voltage is some later Doblos use 4.4 volt glow plugs which would be destroyed if battery 12 volts put through them.
Injectors are made of several sections bolted together, so if someone put a spanner on one part to remove them from engine for example it is quite possible to loosen the seal between the sections, though they can often simple be retightened and stop a leak. Another common source of leaks is the rubber hoses linking the "leak off " pipes on the injectors for the return of fuel to the tank. It is quite a fair flow so worth checking.
Also if the leak is anywhere else but those "leak off" pipes, then the engine will misfire if leaking diesel. Engines will run quite happily leaking a lot of diesel from those rubber "leak off pipes",
If the injectors are leaking at the connection where screwed into the cylinder head they don't leak diesel but you can get combustion fumes and oil, plus a spitting noise. I have used a injector seat reamer for later Common Rail systems where there was an issue , but less likely on the older engines, so confirm exactly what the leak is and if disturbed fit new sealing washers.