General 1.2 or 1.0 MHEV?

[DavrianMk6]

Hello,

looking to possibly change our 62 plate 1.2 Therapy 500 for a Panda, but not sure which engine to go for?

Thinking that either a late 1.2 or maybe the 1.0 MHEV rather than the TA, but have heard that the later euro 6 1.2 hasn't got as good low down torque as the earlier one we have in the Therapy, any thoughts on that?

Also, what's the difference between a Cross and a City Cross is one four wheel drive and the other FWD?

Like the look of the Cross/City Cross, but what is a Wave, Trussardi or a Garmin are they just different trim versions of a Cross/City Cross?

Steve

 

[JTD_Liam]

The 1.0 MHEV would be my choice of the two. The 1.2 was a good engine but they got less good as time went on & the various tweaks were made, presumably for emissions reasons. Some seemed to be very erratic pulling away from a standing start, especially 2014 onwards. Family have a 500c MHEV & it's certainly little/no quicker than the 1.2s I've driven, but it is smoother, it sounds more fun (3 cylinder), has a 6-speed gearbox & delivers better MPG.

The City Cross is 2WD & available with 1.2 & then latterly the 1.0 MHEV, whereas the Cross was 4x4 and came with either TwinAir Petrol or Multijet Diesel engines. A dial for driving modes near the handbrake confirms the 4x4 version.

The Waze was a limited edition available in 2 or 4 wheel drive (1.2 or TwinAir engines respectively). Trussardi was available in 2 & 4 wheel drive too i believe, but I've only ever seen the 2 wheel drive ones (1.2 engine). The Garmin was one of the last versions offered in the UK and is only available as a 1.0 MHEV 2 wheel drive version as far as I know.

 

[Marcus Daly]

I’m not a fan of the fake “hybrid” engine, but I’d prefer it to the 1.2 which was a right lash-up by the end.

 

[DavrianMk6]

The 1.0 MHEV would be my choice of the two. The 1.2 was a good engine but they got less good as time went on & the various tweaks were made, presumably for emissions reasons. Some seemed to be very erratic pulling away from a standing start, especially 2014 onwards. Family have a 500c MHEV & it's certainly little/no quicker than the 1.2s I've driven, but it is smoother, it sounds more fun (3 cylinder), has a 6-speed gearbox & delivers better MPG.

The City Cross is 2WD & available with 1.2 & then latterly the 1.0 MHEV, whereas the Cross was 4x4 and came with either TwinAir Petrol or Multijet Diesel engines. A dial for driving modes near the handbrake confirms the 4x4 version.

The Waze was a limited edition available in 2 or 4 wheel drive (1.2 or TwinAir engines respectively). Trussardi was available in 2 & 4 wheel drive too i believe, but I've only ever seen the 2 wheel drive ones (1.2 engine). The Garmin was one of the last versions offered in the UK and is only available as a 1.0 MHEV 2 wheel drive version as far as I know.

Hi,
Many thanks for all that info, especially the explantion about the City Cross/Cross, we live on the south coast, so no real need for the 4WD.

Think the Garmin, might be out of our price range, but have seen the Wave and the Trussardi advertised and wondered if they were just Ltd editions as I know the 500 has "lots" of ltd editions, but the Panda seems to have less.

From the BHP I can see there is little difference on paper between the two engines, 1.2 5 speed and 1.0MHEV 6 speed so will have to go and have a drive of both to see what they feel like. The 1.2 is a good engine, but as with other makes of older engines all the emissions "improvements" can cause issues.

I’m not a fan of the fake “hybrid” engine, but I’d prefer it to the 1.2 which was a right lash-up by the end.

Hi,

So is it a bit of a "lesser of two evils" approach to the engine choice then?

I realise the Hybrid isn't a full, just a bit of an assist at times, but is the end Euro 6 1.2 pretty poor then? As the current Euro 5 2013 version we run is OK for what we use the car for.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The Waze edition was available as 2WD and 4WD - they look the same from outside but the clear giveaway is a rotary control by the gear-lever on 4WD versions to select different driving modes. That model doesn’t have Waze (the satnav app) built in - just a phone holder on the dash top (like other models). It’s an ‘older’ special edition than the others you mention, only available with the TwinAir engine.
The Garmin edition sold here was only 2WD and also didn’t have a Garmin satnav supplied… like the Waze, it was just an ‘association’ with the brands, and mostly a different paint job
Tussardi is an Italian handbag maker, and that edition had extra leather (or fake leather) trim inside to reflect that. It was available in a metallic brown ‘gloss’ paint, and also a curious ‘Matt finish’ bronze. Never seen one here…

The ‘hybrid’ offers no electric assistance at all once moving. It is a slightly enhanced stop-start system and the car can only move over 3mph under petrol power. It’s a ‘fudge’ that exploits a loophole in the WLTP fuel economy tests.

 

[JTD_Liam]

Hi,
Many thanks for all that info, especially the explantion about the City Cross/Cross, we live on the south coast, so no real need for the 4WD.

Think the Garmin, might be out of our price range, but have seen the Wave and the Trussardi advertised and wondered if they were just Ltd editions as I know the 500 has "lots" of ltd editions, but the Panda seems to have less.

From the BHP I can see there is little difference on paper between the two engines, 1.2 5 speed and 1.0MHEV 6 speed so will have to go and have a drive of both to see what they feel like. The 1.2 is a good engine, but as with other makes of older engines all the emissions "improvements" can cause issues.

Hi,

So is it a bit of a "lesser of two evils" approach to the engine choice then?

I realise the Hybrid isn't a full, just a bit of an assist at times, but is the end Euro 6 1.2 pretty poor then? As the current Euro 5 2013 version we run is OK for what we use the car for.

No probs. Two wheel drive it is then, in which case it's probably worth keeping an open mind on which version (standard City Cross or limited edition) and buying on condition & maintenance record.

You're right that the bhp is more or less the same on the 1.2 & MHEV, I don't think there's much difference on 0-60 either, but they do feel quite different to drive, with the MHEV feeling lighter on its feet. The driveability of the 1.2 was noticeably worse from 2014 onwards & the 500 forums were littered with complaints when the update was first rolled out, with them even making a Watchdog appearance. Fiat seemed to sort the extreme difficulty pulling away on models from 2015, but some later 1.2s I've driven still felt very difficult to make smooth progress in, so you'd have to drive the actual example you intend to buy to avoid being disappointed.

The 1.0 MHEV is as 'Mild Hybrid' as they come, but the stop-start is much smoother than on the 1.2, which was never designed for it, and the MPG seems consistently better than the 1.2. Our 500c is consistently in the 50s mpg, where the 1.2 was around 10mpg lower in some instances.

 

[The Panda Nut]

We hired a Pair of Pandas in Italy . One was a 1.2 and the ther was a 1.0. I didnt drive the 1.0 but talking to my son who did, and driving 100 miles in convoy it seems little difference in performance. Im unconvinced about the hybrid, far too many posts about hybrid battery issues for my liking. I didnt like the hybrid hunting when I tried one it felt awkward at best. Its a newer engine and parts are current so its probably down to what you prefer.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi,
Many thanks for all that info, especially the explantion about the City Cross/Cross, we live on the south coast, so no real need for the 4WD.

Think the Garmin, might be out of our price range, but have seen the Wave and the Trussardi advertised and wondered if they were just Ltd editions as I know the 500 has "lots" of ltd editions, but the Panda seems to have less.

From the BHP I can see there is little difference on paper between the two engines, 1.2 5 speed and 1.0MHEV 6 speed so will have to go and have a drive of both to see what they feel like. The 1.2 is a good engine, but as with other makes of older engines all the emissions "improvements" can cause issues.

Hi,

So is it a bit of a "lesser of two evils" approach to the engine choice then?

I realise the Hybrid isn't a full, just a bit of an assist at times, but is the end Euro 6 1.2 pretty poor then? As the current Euro 5 2013 version we run is OK for what we use the car for.

No its not poor. Possibly the last ones were better than the early Euro 6s. As you say try both. I suspect teh service costs on teh 1.2 may be lower. Worth asking about this and insurance costs.

 

[DavrianMk6]

No its not poor. Possibly the last ones were better than the early Euro 6s. As you say try both. I suspect teh service costs on teh 1.2 may be lower. Worth asking about this and insurance costs.

I've driven a 2018 Euro 6 1.2 when we hired a Fiat 500 in Croatia and drove that for around 800 miles from Split to Zadar and Pag and didn't have any issues with it there, apart from not knowing it was a stop/start model and I thought it had broken at the first set of traffic lights in Zadar. So it looks like I give them both a try if I can find a late 1.2 - when did they stop the 1.2 pandas is it around 2020 or 2021?

 

[AB100]

I've driven a 2018 Euro 6 1.2 when we hired a Fiat 500 in Croatia and drove that for around 800 miles from Split to Zadar and Pag and didn't have any issues with it there, apart from not knowing it was a stop/start model and I thought it had broken at the first set of traffic lights in Zadar. So it looks like I give them both a try if I can find a late 1.2 - when did they stop the 1.2 pandas is it around 2020 or 2021?

The 1.0 started in 2020 so there's some crossover. For me the best options would be a 1.2 model between late 2016 and pre-April 2017. They got the better interior and it preceded the tax hike (£35 to £165 or £190 on the 1.0). Waze and City Cross came later so higher tax. Waze is more basic with steel wheels (though probably a better option).

As noted, the Euro6 flatspot was a brief interlude and was pretty much allayed but you DO need to drive them both.

There's a few always coming up but used Panda prices (and other cars) are still crazy and the post-Covid values have not subsided (probably because new cars are far higher nowadays).

 

[DavrianMk6]

The 1.0 started in 2020 so there's some crossover. For me the best options would be a 1.2 model between late 2016 and pre-April 2017. They got the better interior and it preceded the tax hike (£35 to £165 or £190 on the 1.0). Waze and City Cross came later so higher tax. Waze is more basic with steel wheels (though probably a better option).

As noted, the Euro6 flatspot was a brief interlude and was pretty much allayed but you DO need to drive them both.

There's a few always coming up but used Panda prices (and other cars) are still crazy and the post-Covid values have not subsided (probably because new cars are far higher nowadays).

Yes, depending what's about an older pre road tax rise with low miles could be an option

 

[AB100]

Yes, depending what's about an older pre road tax rise with low miles could be an option

You're in luck - sadly the higher tax but pretty like it was when new, as is the price.

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[DavrianMk6]

You're in luck - sadly the higher tax but pretty like it was when new, as is the price.

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Yes that a good one low miles and not a bad price. I put in a search for sub-15,000 miles and was surprised how many there were, some at the other end of the country and some local most were the 1.0 engine. So think it might be some visits this weekend