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General Bright Idea !

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General Bright Idea !

Formula 91

Formula 91

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Jul 22, 2008
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Morning All,

After taking the Panda out in the dark last night (First time since I got it 3 weeks ago) I have decided that the medival candle style bulbs have got to go.
I want to replace them with 55/60w bulbs :idea:.

I have seen a few comments on here relating to dodgy light switches etc, and as such want to know if any one else has uprated their bulbs without issues.
The increased wattage will draw upto an additional 2.5 amps, my question is are all the components in the system (wiring, fuse, relay....) capable of this increase in current.

I know italian electrics aren't great at the best of times, so I don't really want to make them worse!

Thanks in advance...
 
I changed the bulbs on mine for halogen and they were a big improvement. However after driving around Norway (where I had lights on all the time), the dip/full beam switch was getting pretty dodgy, and was noticeably hot after a time, before packing up completely.

I fitted relays to both the dip and main beam circuits, allowing the lights to get full current from the battery, which means the headlight switch and dip/main switch only have to handle the current to switch the relays, which is pretty small. Fairly easy to do with some lengths of wire, and a couple of relays (I got mine from a Tipo, think they were for the heated back window). I used one for both headlights on dipped and one for both on main beams, and its been working perfectly for a year now.

Also the lights will be brighter still with relays, there is far less current loss as the switches are effectively bypassed completely, mines almost like driving a modern car at night!!
 
Formula 91 said:
Morning All,

I know italian electrics aren't great at the best of times, so I don't really want to make them worse!

Thanks in advance...
Click to expand...

yep i did this and it burnt the switch out, took a year though...mind you could have been a coincidence though ;)
 
Right, Pete (Petel) started the debate of the centry to try and get to the bottom of the headlight switch burn outs. And I think we might have got down to the problem. To help esstablish it further, out of the Panda's with de-funct switch you mention here, can we have the following info. Reg (and date of first registration if around 1991-1993 please. Also if your able to confirm if they have the Hedgehog earths, and if you have, or know or any earthing problems with them.

I haven't installed relays because TBH they don't need it. There is already a relay in the circuit fitted to the fuse board. This does the headlights, and possibly the main beam.

The problem with using sperate relays is that technically you'll need 4 relays as each bulb had 2 fuses on the fuse board (dipped and main beam) which should be used for most protection.

I have yet to have problems with the Selecta's switch or the 1000CL, I only suffer with the one in the 750L and I know for fact this has played up before the brighter bulbs were ever fitted, lol.

Have a look here; https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/142208-headlight-switch-failures.html

Jon.
 
MEP, You don't need 4 relays, two is all that is required. One for the dipped beam and one for main beam. Dipped will pull just over 9A and Main 10A. Well within the scope of one relay. Forget the Fiat fuses and relays those circuits just become switching circuits with the main power coming from the battery through the appropriatly rated (new) fuses.

However, you mention there are relays already, so in therory there shouldn't be any high current switching going on at the main switch.

I think I will check out the circuits later to see which components are on the high side. Just one final question though, where are the fuses and relays, I can't say I have noticed them yet :confused: I know there aren't many places to look :rolleyes:
 
Formula 91 said:
MEP, You don't need 4 relays, two is all that is required. One for the dipped beam and one for main beam. Dipped will pull just over 9A and Main 10A. Well within the scope of one relay. Forget the Fiat fuses and relays those circuits just become switching circuits with the main power coming from the battery through the appropriatly rated (new) fuses.

However, you mention there are relays already, so in therory there shouldn't be any high current switching going on at the main switch.

I think I will check out the circuits later to see which components are on the high side. Just one final question though, where are the fuses and relays, I can't say I have noticed them yet :confused: I know there aren't many places to look :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

yep, that!

mine had no relays for either dipped or main as standard ('87 4x4), so the switch has to deal with all of the power. Uprated bulbs draw more current, so as the switches aren't great anyway they become much more likely to fail. The existing headlight circuits serve only as a circuit to power the relays once they are fitted, as these draw very little power (probably <1A), the switches should last.

Maybe later Pandas had uprated wiring?
 
Formula 91, Very much correct, I was having a senior moment. Your right about the relays and fusing the power direct from the battery. Silly me :p

Do check your fuse board for relays though. The haynes manual dosen't list them, and I to did think there were any until the headlights on dad's 1000CL started playing up, I pushed a relay on the fuse board (I thought it was for the rear screen heater) that was almost off of the fuse board, and it sorted out the lights. So atleast on his 1000CL there is a realy, but not to sure about all Panda's as it seems strange its not mentioned in the haynes manuals.

Jon.
 
OK, I had a look into this earlier and can report the following gleened from my 91 1000CL Carb and a Haynes manual.

I only have 2 relays and one flasher unit. The relays are main power and heated screen. If you have injection you get another one, and if you have a selecta you get yet another. So Jon I guess you have the full compliment :cool:.
Therefore there are no seperate relays for dipped/full beam.

Another thing to note is the fuses. MK1's have 8 amp fuses for both dipped and full, MK2's have 10 amp fuses. This means that fitting 60w bulbs to a MK1 will result in blown fuses every time you use your lights, and in a MK2 you are right on the limit of circuit protection. (n)

All of this current does go through your main light switch, which may go some way to explaining why you guys have seen so many bust switches.:idea:

When my uprated bulbs arrive I will be fitting relays. (y)
 
I do like a good discussion :D

2 relays and a indicator flasher on the fuse boards, yes one relay is rear screen, but the 2nd your wrong about, think that's for the intermittant on the front wiper.

I'm going to double check what that relay is on the 1000CL, because I'm sure it affected the headlights, but again, I agree with you, because I don't think it's on the 750L, so come to think of it, I'll check ALL our Panda's :p.

Jon.
 
Most Easterly Panda's said:
I do like a good discussion :D

2 relays and a indicator flasher on the fuse boards, yes one relay is rear screen, but the 2nd your wrong about, think that's for the intermittant on the front wiper.
Click to expand...

Me too (y)

Sorry Jon, You are quite right about that relay. I really should take more care with scribbling notes down. Who knows where I copied that from :confused:
 
Sorry if I am missing something here but is someone saying that there is no relay for the lights on some or all of the earlier Panda's?
Thanks.
 
petel said:
Sorry if I am missing something here but is someone saying that there is no relay for the lights on some or all of the earlier Panda's?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

It would certainly appear that way.....:(

Haynes doesn't list one, and I can only find two under the dash.
 
If this is the case, can anyone please confirm if there is or is not a relay or relays for this purpose on Panda's post 1992 ( ie, after the earthing change )?
Rgds.
 
I can now confirm, with reasonable evidence, that all mk2 Panda's are fitted with headlamp relays :p

I checked both of our Selecta's (June-July 1993) and the 750L (Sept 1989) and the following is what I've found.

These are the fues boards out of Dad's new Selecta, the 750L and my Selecta respectivly;

Dad's Selecta fuse board.jpg
Dad's Selecta

750L fuse board.jpg
The 750L

My selecta fuse board.jpg
My Selecta

Now in all of the Panda's the circled relay is for the headlamps, remove it and whala - No headlamps :) or :( if it's defective :p

So to confirm this in more detail, I kindly ask you all, especially none UK Panda owners as they might be different, to remove this relay (ign off (y)) and try your headlights to see if they no longer work, and then replace and check again.

I think this will be the best way of confirming.


On a seperate note I'm concerned that certain fuse ratings with all our Panda's don't match :eek: Could someone confirm what they should be, or even post a pic of their fuse board, and if alot of people do it, we can see who's arn't what they should be.

Jon (y)
 
Thank you Jon for taking the time and trouble to confirm on this question.

So the 750L does have a headlight relay but still has switch failures. Back to the earthing issue I suppose.
Rgds.
 
petel said:
So the 750L does have a headlight relay but still has switch failures. Back to the earthing issue I suppose.
Rgds.
Click to expand...

Yes and yes I would say (y) But would also in theiory prove that the strength of bulbs fitted wouldn't affect it.

Alan.D said:
:yeahthat:

Re the fuses there is a list of ratings on your new porters manual...
Click to expand...

Will have a look when it arrives then :yum:
 
Last edited:
Most Easterly Panda's said:
I can now confirm, with reasonable evidence, that all mk2 Panda's are fitted with headlamp relays :p
Click to expand...

Jon you are indeed quite right. For some reason the Haynes manual circuit digram does not show it at all :confused:

Anyway that aside I went ahead and added th new relays for dipped and main beams. I basically split the harness by the bulkhead and used the LH head lamp feeds to control the relays, isolated the RH head light feeds and removed the fuses fro the RH headlight circuits. (attached picture shows bracket location on bulk head)

Now the puzzling part when I switch side lights on I get dipped beam :confused: This is strange because I didn't touch the side light circuits.
Unfortunatly as the heavens opened shortly after this discovery I didn't get a chance to start my multimeter aided investigation!

Does anyone have/know where I can find a reliable lighting circuit diagram for a MK2 Panda (showing the lighting relay) that I can use?
 

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