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Technical KriTip's 1.2 16V Sei Project

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Technical KriTip's 1.2 16V Sei Project

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KriTip's 1.2 16V Sei Project



Introduction



Right, I've been planning and researching for ages on the forum and have always been tempted by an engine conversion.



I had lots of decisions to make about which one to go for, 1.1L highly modified, 1.2 8V, 1.2 16V or 1.4L 16V, and finally came to settle on the 1.2 16V engine as availability of the 1.4L is very rare! I couldn't source one after weeks of trying.



I saved starting this thread until I actually decided to give it a genuine go, as there so often seems people planning stuff and asking questions that never materialise.



The project will probably take months to complete, and be updated as I go along, detailing how its going, problems I encounter and defiantly usingi it as a place to ask questions and vent my frustrations ;)





The Parts



I have just made an order with Salvo Group based not to far from Nottingham, and on Saturday 17th Feb will be collection the following items:



Fiat Punto Sporting MK2 1.2 16V engine (mileage unknown at present, but apparently it will be from and 03/04, low mileage and a known good engine (y))



Fiat Punto Sporting MK1 Inlet manifold and Throttle Body



Fiat Seicento Engine Hose from the thermostat (as mine is currently butchered for a temp sensor that i will now be moving to the thermostat)





All of this will come to the sum of £350 which seems a good price for what I'm getting. It'll be ready for collection Saturday morning, and I was told if there's anything else I need just bring along my tools.



So its out with the seats tonight, to make room (y)



I'll update with pics once I receive it, and make sure I take plenty as I go along.







The Plan



I aim to swap the current engine for the 1.2, using the current mounts and current gearbox form the Sei.



I will be getting a SS exhaust manifold (hopefully second hand), and a custom exhaust made up as the Sei bore will be too restrictive i think. I will also have to get a CAT from somewhere to keep the lambda's happy.



At the same time I will get the flywheel lightened (AR Jordan, expect a PM soon), adn fit a new clutch, the larger one for the 1.2's.

I'm going to enquire about getting a rebore as well, but I think this may be too much money.


I will be trying to retain the existing ECU, locks and loom, and get the engine remapped after everything else is done. I am hoping it will run before I have the ECU done. At a future date I will get a standalone ECU system unless I am forced too straight away.

The time scale for all of this work is a few months. Most will be preparatory though, and I plan to do the entire bulk of the work over 1 or 2 weekends to minimise downtime.





Well that's it for now..expect updates soon (y)

Cheers,

Kristian
 
Lol - copy cat!!

Just finished my 16v Sei Mpi conversion back in Jan.

Sounds like you have most things covered, if you need any help don't be afraid to pm me as I know pretty much all the ins and outs of the conversion (or so it seems).

The engine has so much potential.

Be prepared for a lot of mapping work though, my car will probably had about 5 maps by the time its all perfect come summer hopefully.

The bonus of this is i'm not shelling out ££££ for standalone system! Keep taking my car to chipped UK and the service is great to keep it all on a student budget, Peter is also giving me great discounts on it.

I'm also on the lookout for a superpsrint manifold but they seem to be very rare espec on the 2nd hand market. So will be buying one new prob come easter time.

Its got quite a large spec and i'm told the finished article with give around 120-130bhp.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/jrracing/RRMap1-1.jpg

This was an avg run from y.day (not the highest)

It currently has a blowing exhaust and standard 1108 pipework for about 2 foot of the system which all needs to be changed for 16v bore pipework.

I have also only had the engine in for about 3 weeks and there is so much more tweaking to do but defo a good choice of engine and really only about 10bhp down on the 1368 engine which can easily be made up as I am currently sorting (Y)

Anyway good luck with it, hope it all goes well and dont hesitate to get in touch.
 
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kritip said:
Fiat Punto Sporting MK2 1.2 16V engine (mileage unknown at present, but apparently it will be from and 03/04, low mileage and a known good engine (y))
Click to expand...

Its up to you but the mk 1 engine is the better engine bhp wise, the mk 2 16v engine is rated at 80bhp, the mk 1 at 86bhp.

On the other hand you could get a mk2 engine and use mk 1 parts (i believe it was a different cams that made the power but could be wrong). So could swap them over.

If you are lightening the fly etc or doing any internal work rebuild may be required so will all be new anyway if you did chose on a mk 1 engine.

Soz just forgot to add that!
 
JR said:
I have also only had the engine in for about 3 weeks and there is so much more tweaking to do but defo a good choice of engine and really only about 10bhp down on the 1368 engine which can easily be made up as I am currently sorting (Y)
Click to expand...
The 1368 16v engine has more potential than the 1242 16v unit. Having to send the engine up to the red line all the time to get acceleration isn't the best idea in the world & IIRC the stock 1368 unit delivers significantly more torque low down than the 80bhp 1.2 let alone the 86bhp (which is more tuned to top-end power)...
 
Of course the 1368 has more potential, it has more power and more torque!!!

But what i'm saying is a more highly modified 1242 16v will dispose of a lightly modified 1368!

Also with the induction I am currently running (GSR prototype) the car is extremely drivable from the bottom, the torque will also be significantly higher in the future with more work.
 
I have got to say this, I have seen now quite a few Chipped UK power runs and not one has added up yet, I feel that there is no way in hell a car that makes less than 60bhp at the wheels is making 100bhp at the fly wheel, thats over 40% loss through transmission, absolute tosh!

Plus why does bhp and torque not pass at 5252rpm?

Anyone who knows a thing about r/r runs will know why I am asking this.

My Cinq made 98bhp at the wheels therefore 120 at flywheel which is a realistic 18% drive train loss which is normal for a FFD car. The thumb rule is you take at wheel power add 10 then divide by 0.9 to get flywheel power all this is covered in detail here http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/POWER3.htm

Why does the graph not show run dowen to get a proper calculated transmission loss?

All seems very odd to me. This is how a graph should look with bhp and torque crossing.

stan_smith1.gif
 
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Aaron: thought it was just me :eek: power at the tyre is PATW then on chipped RR printouts? :confused: how can there be a 40% loss through transmission on a fwd car :confused: (i know 4wd have heavier losses...) i wasnt sure if it was me or my lack of knowledge/experience of RR's :eek:
 
Sorry KriTip for trashing your thread but its all relevant I promise for when you do yours :spin:

Alex I first became aware of these types of graphs when I joined Suzuki forum and they had a whole owners club day at Chipped UK doing lots of cars and the graphs just looked like nothing I have ever seen, and again with losses upto 45% just looked very strange, especialy when you see cars with less bhp at wheels than my Cinq made yet 20bhp more at flywheel :confused:

There is no run down either as you take run down and add that to power graph to get transmisson losses.

Its just like no other graph that any other r/r uses and I would ask them why if I used them.
 
Well i'm not an expert on rolling roads, so just posting what I have.

He said the 40bhp difference was a heck of a lot, we put it down to the engine rocking about on mounts and drivetrain losses to which I am investigating in the next few days.

Just so no one gets confused I am not one of these people who gets kicks out of saying their car has way more than it actually does!!

I know what 100bhp feels like in one of these cars and I would say thats fairly accurate at the fly, and no i am not being biased!

I know hundreds of people who use chipped uk, many of whom are top end car users so can't see them taking nonsense.

I know when I was there last one of the editors of BMW performance magazine was there, Jason maps BM's, Merc's and the odd supercar and has had many good write ups in top end car mags (so I don't think its all figures no go)

Also before anyone says anything else I have a r/r from track and road in Rainham which backs up chipped UK's claims, they are another highly respected r/r.

Whilst my car was 1108 my car was mapped to 75bhp at the fly, 3 days later (same setup, conditions) also made 75bhp with similar drive train losses. If chipped is so innacurate would that have not highlighted it??
 
Seeing as this wasn't made entirely clear the comparison r/r printout was done on the 1108 not the 16v, as this was only sorted yesterday.

Once again Kristian sorry for going off topic.
 
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Hehe,

no worries about the O/T, its all relevant to me as I will have to have it done (y)

Did your car run at all before the map JR? Also I know you did it before me, I wasn't intending it to sound like it was a first ;) Just wanted to make sure I keep a good log, cause if I don't start now, I'll not bother, and it may help others with every stage detailed (y)

Keep up the debate on the mapping ;) I rang around locally and couldn't find anyone who could do it :( So will have to start looking further afield :)

Pics tomorrow once I have it :slayer:

With regards to mk1 vs mk2, I'd prefer the newer engine, which already supports the cam sensor. They will hopefully be in better condition, and the better mpg / less power may be internal, but I bet a lot is also just mappings for emissions and the EU ;)

Kristian
 
J333EVO
Plus why does bhp and torque not pass at 5252rpm?
Click to expand...

In this case because (at least!) they're not plotted on the same scale. My guess (I'm not going to do it) is that if they were, the curves would intersect @ 5252.

But I'm suspicious of the figures, too. IIRC, the infamous silver sei put out 110bhp on individual throttle bodies and that was pretty much a cost no object project. I find it impossible to believe that a NA 1241 could equal Blue's power output, let alone come within 20bhp of Turbo Cinque's. I'd love to see that car run on "Blue's" RR.

JR
But what i'm saying is a more highly modified 1242 16v will dispose of a lightly modified 1368!
Click to expand...

At Silverstone or the M6 toll, maybe. On a give and take road or at 3 Sisters, no chance!

Kristian
I rang around locally and couldn't find anyone who could do it So will have to start looking further afield
Click to expand...
. PM Smurfhead Gaz (or do a search in the other place).
 
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