Tuning turbo rolling roaded MPI GT17 big turbo!!!!

fordcosworth · Apr 12, 2010

Hello guys

right ive finished my new setup on the cinq using the new turbo and fueling setup and today i visited Nobles again for the full setup to see how she went on with my specialy choosen turbo!

156.2bhp @ 6534rpm

145.2lb/sf of torque @ 4644rpm

@ 14psi

This is what the boost is set at for the road but Nobles did a sesond run at 18psi to see what she was pulling and the results where as follows -

167bhp/160lb/sf

Here is the new engine spec used to achieve this goal -

Punto 75 engine
Garrett GT1752 turbo 0.47 turbine/053 compressor (mated with my GT15 bearing housing using the GT17 shaft etc)
2" turbo back exhaust
Aquamist MF2
75 inlet manifold mated with tricker 40mm TB with standard SPI injecotor controlled by stock ecu for off boost fueling.
4 volvo MPI injecotors controlled by the MF2 for "on boost MPI" fueling.
75 cam and head (ported)
Adjustable cam pulley
Externally mounted HKS mushroom air filter
GT turbo intercooler
Mandral bend boost pipes
Splitfire 8MM h/t leads and EON1 plugs
Greddy boost controller
Turbosmart fuel cut defender
1.5mm Copper decomp plate (exactly 8.5:1 c/r)
Payen head gasket

I have to say this is the setup for fast turbo cinqs, the GT17 is from the saab 9-3 turbo and runs at peak efficiency at 15-18psi delivering enought air for 170bhp, the best part about my figures is they are down by about 20bhp because of the GT intercooler and a hugley retrictive throttle bob inlet! so that would have been 176bhp on an 8v 1242!
On the road it so much better, all the low end torquer has gone so the bad wheel spin has gone and the turbo is so progressive! there is little 80lb/sf upto 3000rpm and then the torque starts to rocket up as the power climbs rapidly.
The needle flys round the clock past 100mph to fast for comfort

and the top end power is awsome, its still making the full 156bhp right upto 7000rpm before it drops off so in gear acceleration is rapid.

This is one hell off a quick car :devil:

all the sleepless nights and research etc have paid off im over the moon with the little monster.

thanks

jason

ycming · Apr 12, 2010

Am truly jealouse! Nice work mate!

Ming

gazzaman2k · Apr 12, 2010

nice work impressive figures, mines comming along at snail pace lol i got the bits just got no time to do it all, might build my engine up and leave it on a stand need to sell my red seicento first though before i start my yellow one

craigb244 · Apr 12, 2010

good work! not much else you can do now

bit like mine now ive done my last handling modifications

allanhelen · Apr 12, 2010

Very nice figures and a very different way of getting them too

well done!

fordcosworth · Apr 12, 2010

Thanks guys, must admit ive enjoyed doing it mostly.....split knuckles and depressed days come with the pakage haha.

Special thanks to martin for the tips and advise along the way

Ive been out in the little monster for the last 30 mins driving around exsperimenting with the new setup to see what it can do

but after getting a proper chance to exsperiment with it i can honastly say its mega quick

overtaking is a rapid exsperience and although the power doesnt come in hard until 3-3.5k you hardly notice because the turbo comes onto boost at 0.1 bar @ just 1800 so the build upto full boost is very progressive rather than slow making it very drivable without killing the tyres to much........well maybe a little

Ive just come across an ST220 mondeo that i legaly played with

and he just couldnt keep up!

10/10 for this conversion!
Spoe the next thing for me is to sort out a 2" BOB to free the last ponies from the engine and ive been disscusing water injection with martin for a way off helping keep charge temps down without having to squeeze a big cooler in!

thanks

jason

MazCinq · Apr 12, 2010

wow nice figures would love to see what it can do for really will you be taking it to any shows or rwyb events

purf · Apr 13, 2010

Truly Awesome! :worship:

Maybe one day i will do a turbo conversion...

GhostWKD · Apr 13, 2010

Kind of thing i always wanted to do on mine heh

Dont post much anymore but thought i'd pop on just to say nice one

:slayer:

bad_boy_cinq · Apr 13, 2010

GhostWKD said:
Kind of thing i always wanted to do on mine heh

Dont post much anymore but thought i'd pop on just to say nice one :slayer:

Kind of thing which is happening to yours Alex :devil:

Jason, Brilliant figures well done. Just need to get my finger out now.

J333EVO · Apr 13, 2010

Excellent results, really good to see someone pushing the envelope with regards to cento tuning.

What you want now is a LSD to really get the power down especially out of bends. Doesn't need to he expensive Quaife which if you have a bonded crown wheel could prove an issue fitting, but inexpensive Phantom Grip http://store.phantomgrip.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=235

syaochan · Apr 13, 2010

Nice! Although I wonder how 299.95$ become 331.02 euros

Will this be useful also on a "nearly standard" 1108?

fordcosworth · Apr 14, 2010

J333EVO said:
Excellent results, really good to see someone pushing the envelope with regards to cento tuning.

What you want now is a LSD to really get the power down especially out of bends. Doesn't need to he expensive Quaife which if you have a bonded crown wheel could prove an issue fitting, but inexpensive Phantom Grip http://store.phantomgrip.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=235

this is tempting!, really interested for the near future....i say this because i took the cinq out on some country roads to see what the power is like to handle on the twistys and i must say it was a scary exsperience!

Hard corners followed by full throttle in third result in hitting the rev limit and then fighting with the wheel as it regains grip again, plus as you change direction with the turbo coming onto boost you have to be on your toes.

Overtaking at speed is a little scary aswell.....a friend off mine in a tweaked punto accelerated from 60 upto around 75 at which time i dropped into third, within seconds i passed him at 110mph with the car wondering all over the road as i changed direction.

Its harder to drive fast round corners than before because the small turbo pulled me out off corners quick and responded alot quicker but im not complaining...it awsome

jason

J333EVO · Apr 14, 2010

Richard Beaty's FTO which runs an 11.03sec 1/4 mile @ 130+mph used a Phantom Grip LSD in his car which was FWD 2.5L V6 Twin turbo with about 450ish bhp.

He has only recently changed to a bespoke Quaife ATB LSD as he has gone single big turbo and has over 500bhp.

Richard told me that he loved his Phantom Grip, it was very effective, not snatchy in any way and did exactly what it was meant to do, it was only when he went big power (in his book 500+) that it ran out of talent and he went Quaife like all his rivals in Ten of The Best.

Although we have a Quiafe on our track day Cinq, I'm very tempted to try the Phantom Grip in the future on our Sei 1.4 16V as even it has real trouble getting the power down. Coming out of bends you wait, wait, wait then get on the power as doing it sooner just means you power understeer with inside wheel spinning up. Your car must be a real animal.

I would also recommend getting some Eibach camber bolts from Venom Motorsport, they are £15 and get your front geo set up with about 1/1.5degrees negative camber you will also get much better traction. On checking some Centos some are very close to running positive camber which on a bend could be a big contributory factory in them understeering so much.

allanhelen · Apr 14, 2010

The problem is Jason is that you have passed the limits of what the car can really cope with and still be fun to drive as an every day drive.TBH that is where I was and it becomes a pain to drive rather than a joy.

In all the mad stuff I have owned and driven my Cinq at full boost was the only one that actually scared me. The LSD was my way to change this as it was unusable at higher boost level and down right dangerous in anything but dry conditions, but that never happened as I found something that was more fun before it was fitted.

As i have said on many occasions this is what you will need in the end along with probably the slickest tyres you can legally run, either that or you'll end up buying a second car and save the Cinq for high days and holidays and end up loosing interest

craigb244 · Apr 16, 2010

allanhelen said:
The problem is Jason is that you have passed the limits of what the car can really cope with and still be fun to drive as an every day drive.TBH that is where I was and it becomes a pain to drive rather than a joy.

exactly. lately ive been concentrating on handling rather the getting more power.
The car was quickly becoming a point and squirt car.

for day to day driving I only run to almost half a bar. can still pass or keep up with most cars you meet and if not i can usually pass them as soon as you get to a bend :yum:

fordcosworth · May 15, 2010

hello guys!

just thought id give you a quick update on whats happening with the cinq since the setup on the new engine/turbo etc.

A few off you mensioned before about handling upgrades to get the most out of the new engine setup and the more i drove the car the more that fact stuck out at me!......roundabouts are frustrating now because there is either no power to pull you through and out quickly or there is far far to much and you end up visiting a feild at 7200rpm screaming!

I can honestly say the best setup for fun and rapid corner/roundabout speed etc was when the car ran 116bhp and 113lb/sf of torque because it was a very competative car against some big toys when it came to the corners being able to put the power down and pull out off corners rapidly with no lag!
Now i find my self slowing right down for the roundabout in third.....slowly going round......then building up the revs a little before nailing it

Soooooo, what ive done is invested in some Eibach camber bolts that will give upto 1.5 degrees negative camber to give more traction while cornering and hopefully this will massilvly help the tyre put the torque down better on exit, but then centos lean far to much from the rear loading up the tyre in action and giving guhe understeer etc.So to combat this ive also gone for a Rally Designs rear anti-roll bar kit which includes a roll bar, weldable mounts, polyurathane bushes and knife blade arms with threads on the end for rose jointed drop links.
This anti-roll bar kit was built for the sierra cosworth (front) and the idea was given to me by a friend who rallys these for a living, he had the same kit with the "soft bar" as i have purchased on a 205 at the rear with very very good results!
To help take a little extra strain off the centre of the car from the roll bar ive fitted a brace that goes from one side to the other about 10 inches from the floot were the back seats used to be!

The diff will come at a later stage once ive seen what the new suspension will behave like etc.

Right.....now onto the engine, 160bhp is a lot from the small bugger so keeping things safe is a new priority so ive bought an Aquamaist Methonal/water injection kit which will be going on soon to combat the inlet and charge temps aswell as exhaust temps reducing the chance of DET massivley along with my J and S ultra safe gaurd ingnition controller which works of off a knock sensor on the rear of the engine retarding timing on knock or at a set point etc.

ill pop some pics up tomorow!

thanks

MKoers · May 15, 2010

I must say, when I read the figure I thought (HOLY $$%^#$@^#!) that's fast

I would like to see some movies on youtube or something like that.
Like to see the speed it go's to 110Mph.

I want to do a turbo conversion this year after I got myself a new cinq so I'm reading a lot.

Now you said to placed a 1.5mm decomp plate.
Did you do any work on the bottom end of the engine to lower the compression or is it stock?

Did you do anything to the cilinderhead?

fordcosworth · May 16, 2010

MKoers said:
I must say, when I read the figure I thought (HOLY $$%^#$@^#!) that's fast
I would like to see some movies on youtube or something like that.
Like to see the speed it go's to 110Mph.

I want to do a turbo conversion this year after I got myself a new cinq so I'm reading a lot.

Now you said to placed a 1.5mm decomp plate.
Did you do any work on the bottom end of the engine to lower the compression or is it stock?

Did you do anything to the cilinderhead?

I will get some videos done soon when ive finished the above work etc, the needle really flys around the clock especially mid range. I timed the 40-60 in third at 2.5 seconds using a greddy full auto timer and the 40-80 through the gears came back at 6 seconds!
Yes it uses a 1.5mm copper decompression plate which takes the 75 engines cpmpression ratio from 9.8:1 - 8.5:1 and the bottom end is a standard 75 1242 block, i plan to go to 16v rods and pistons in the future with some light work on the rods like shot peening etc for piece of mind and i feel that it would benifit from having the cranck balanced and lightened as its rough up around 7000rpm where the engine is still mking peak power with good torque etc.

anyway here are the latest pics of the car -

thanks

The head (75 head) has been ported on the inlet side along with the manifold to match, runs the standard valves,springs cam etc.

custard · May 16, 2010

pretty impressive stuff!
any chance you can do a proper members motors thread in the MM section?
opens up your car to other members and you can collate all the info into one reference thread
(thats in addition to threads in the cento section though!)

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