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Technical YABUT - Front disc / caliper converion questions

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Technical YABUT - Front disc / caliper converion questions

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YetAnotherBrakeUpgradeThread :eek:

I know there are lots of threads on here, so didn't know which to tag onto, and also as there are so many, I thought one more wouldn't hurt :p

I have spent ages reading the forum, and still have some questions.

The newer Punto GT 97-99 aka ATE? callipers seem the preferred choice. Are these callipers only found on this model or on other models to? Note I'm not asking which other model callipers fit, which are listed in several threads, but specifically which have the newer style of caliper :)

I dug up the following two images of the older and newer style, so when down at the breakers I can make sure i get the correct ones.

What are the obvious differences though? They look pretty similar/the same to my untrained eye. Is there an obvious difference, someone mentioed a spring, but i can't see one? :confused:

94-97.JPG 97-99.jpg

My current brakes work great as they are uprated, but now I have more power, they don't work as well as they used to, hence the thought of fitting the bigger discs (y)

Cheers everyone,

Kristian
 
I dont think you have pictures of both... Im pretty sure i have the newer ones on my sei, and mine have a prtty obvious spring/retainery thing that goes over the callipers. It'd be pretty obvious in the pics you have...
 
PS i said pretty a lot in that previous post didnt i :eek: - i'll have a search for a pic of my callipers....
 
https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/96049-gt-vs-ut-brakes.html

After a bit longer searching I found the above thread which covers pretty much all I need to know, including the pad design etc.

I think the picture on the right I posted IS the newer style, but I was also confused by the mention of a spring, and the fact you don't think they look like yours is even more confusing lol

What car did yours come from? Any idea?

Kristian
 
If you scroll dpwn the thread you linked to, when you get to the first set of pics, you can see the springs on the second picture - it looks like the image you've got is from the same car tho - maybe a rear disc conversion? I think mine were from a marea weekend td summit or other. I just sat down with the list, and emailed some people on ebay who were breaking cars, and struck the best condition/price balance!
 
Looking at the pics you put up, if you look at the one on the right, the calliper is pretty small - id say pre conversion probably? or a rear upgrade...
 
kritip, I think you've got your self confused as the ones on the right are the orginal 240mm disc and caliper. Arron quite shows this in the GT v's UT brakes thread the difference between the early and late PGT callipers. From the thread is an updated list of cars that used the callipers, newer type callipers in green

Marea 1.6 auto saloon (not manual)
Marea 1.6 estate
Marea 1.8, 1.9TD 100 & TD110 (not 2.4)
Tempra 2.0 petrol & TD
Bravo/a 1.8, 1.9TD 100
Barchetta 95-99
Tipo 2.0 8 valve
Punto GT -97
Punto GT 97-99
Alfa 155 1.8 8v or 1.8 16v (not 2L) possibly
 
StoneNewt said:
Marea 1.6 auto saloon (not manual)
Marea 1.6 estate
Marea 1.8, 1.9TD 100 & TD110 (not 2.4)
Tempra 2.0 petrol & TD
Bravo/a 1.8, 1.9TD 100
Barchetta 95-99
Tipo 2.0 8 valve
Punto GT -97
Punto GT 97-99
Alfa 155 1.8 8v or 1.8 16v (not 2L) possibly
Click to expand...

According to the EBC website quoted in the UT vs GT brake thread, the 97-02 Bravo/a 1.9TD 100 and 1.8 have the later type discs too.
 
Your right, I had read so many thread and looked at so many pics, my mind was in a a right state and I was going round in confused circles lol.

I now see what the caliper I'm after looks like and thanks for the updated list, I'll hopefully find what i'm after (y)

As a guide for prices, is £40 a pair a rough price? cheaper or more?

I'm not too fussed about the quality of them, as i will send them off to www.bigred.co.uk for the cheapest refurb and paint they do, to make sure they are 100%. Last thing i want is a leaking seal.

Cheers again everyone (y)

Kristian

//EDIT If you find the fait part number and fire it into EPER will it not list all the applications for it? (not sure as I can't run it :( )
 
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nah, on the ebc site you can look up the pad part numbers and also the disc part numbers.

The ones I linked too have the same disc part number as the punto gt disc part number, so thickness will be the same.

There may be other differences, but it's worth a punt, so I'll bid now (can't bid tomorrow as I'm in work). not gonna bid too high in case they are no use though.

Hopefully have another model to add to the list ;)


Wish me luck :D and no bumping my proxy bid please anyone :p

Kristian




/EDIT

http://mintexbrakesonline.co.uk/product.php?ctn=mintexbrakediscs&product=MDC615

the above mintex selector show all the combinations for the gt vented disc. This will cover all the newer and older style "punto GT" calipers for vented discs.

You can then use the list and the pad selector to find the version you want, older or newer style :)

//EDIT AGAIN!

http://mintexbrakesonline.co.uk/product.php?ctn=mintexbrakepads&product=MDB1734

These are the applications with the newer style ATE caliper (y)
 
Last edited:
Forgot you have them already to go! You have the vented or non-vented?

I can pop round whenever and do them, I've had my calipers and brakes apart enough times, I could be it blind fold by now lol. The swap looks very simple, just remove and replace :)

Kristian
 
Replacement is very easy, it is just unbolt and change over, not any more difficult than changing a standard disc/pad/calliper. And as correctly noticed by StoneNewt the pictures that Kritip posted shows an earlier type Punto calliper with a Cinq calliper, not the latter type Punto calliper.

I used and fitted same to Emma's Cinq and will be fitting to the Sei 16V MaxTorq Group N discs from www.raldes.co.uk as they have a higher friction co-efficient than standard discs and offer great life span and fantastic braking when matched to Mintex M1144 pads, though be careful when ordering these to get set that matches the correct calliper. I came across these discs by going onto a track day car forum and looking up what people recommended and these came top with on average 4-6 full on track days, compared to 2-3 on much bigger branded items before needing changed.

When going up the brake size you really do not have to go to the extra expense of multi groove/drilled discs unless for the looks. And when buying grooved discs more is not actually any better as this reduces the surface area and can increase braking distances, its generally regarded that 6 grooves is optimum to deglazing pad and not reducing surface area. There is a very good article in this moths Performance Tuner mag that goes through all the different brake upgrade routes.
 
For my conversion the company I talked to recommended sparsely drilled for track day use but slotted/grooved for daily use, I think the groves are to stop glassing due to wider range of operating temps and conditions. I what are your thoughts on this Aaron?
 
StoneNewt said:
For my conversion the company I talked to recommended sparsely drilled for track day use but slotted/grooved for daily use, I think the groves are to stop glassing due to wider range of operating temps and conditions. I what are your thoughts on this Aaron?
Click to expand...

Yeah the grooves help to de-glaze, but no more than 6 grooves to prevent reduction on surface area, plus grooves are noisy in operation, this is what I have on my integrale Red Dot and Tarox rally pads, but that was more through chance of a great deal rather than looking for them. I never found an issue on the Cinq with the solid MaxTorq and Mintex M1144 pads.
 
Cheers Aaron for the info.

Those Maxtorq Plain disc are an OK price, along the same as EBC normal discs.

If I went for plain discs and pads...ie nothing fancy or expensive, will I still see a bit improvment over the 240mm brembo with green stuff pads?

I guess the range of choices are vast and vary so much.

At least I can move the brembo and green stuff to the rear when i convert them (y)

Cheers,

Kristian
 
You'll notice a massive differance over the normal stuff, I just found that the normal 240mm brakes were pretty poor as brakes go, especially when compared to modern cars like my Ignis which has vented 257mm fronts and solid 258mm rears.

Though I did go to the Mintex pads which along with Pagid (Mintex and pagid are owned by same company) and Ferrodo DS are regarded as best you can get.
 
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