Yes applies to lots of things, sometimes it's not worth the bother searching for a cheaper way, other times it is.
Depends on your hourly rate
Technical Shell V Power
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Technical Shell V Power
Yes applies to lots of things, sometimes it's not worth the bother searching for a cheaper way, other times it is.
Depends on your hourly rate
the fuel price reduction had not hit the shell station i used in cardiff today, good news though
in reality no matter how much the drop is the relative gap of the mpg compared to our other cars will remain the same and the saving will remain relatively constant all be it out goings will be less
in reality no matter how much the drop is the relative gap of the mpg compared to our other cars will remain the same and the saving will remain relatively constant all be it out goings will be less
Well...had some interesting developments this week after filling up with V Power.
The last two fill-ups we had were with regular Shell unleaded as there was no V Power in stock. Both my wife and I noticed that the car was pulling in a less responsive manner in both 1st and 2nd gear.
However we've gone back to V Power again and the car pulls so much better in 1st and 2nd. This is the first time I've noticed any real difference in the actual performance of the car (most of the other benefits so far related to the refinement of the engine).
It'd be great if someone out there had some kit to see what benefits (if any) such petrol had on the 1.2?
The last two fill-ups we had were with regular Shell unleaded as there was no V Power in stock. Both my wife and I noticed that the car was pulling in a less responsive manner in both 1st and 2nd gear.
However we've gone back to V Power again and the car pulls so much better in 1st and 2nd. This is the first time I've noticed any real difference in the actual performance of the car (most of the other benefits so far related to the refinement of the engine).
It'd be great if someone out there had some kit to see what benefits (if any) such petrol had on the 1.2?
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The kit that would be used is called a Chassis Dynamometer and it has been used on a low powered NA Clio 1.2. Using a higher octane fuel showed no benefits. Skipping to the Fifth Gear youtube to 2:51 gives the 'result'. As pointed out from previous posts the only benefit on a standard 500 is the cleansing properties associated with Shell V Power.
Looking at your manual on the Fiat 500 petrol engines the fuel specified is 'Unleaded petrol 95 RON' - there is no mention of 'or 98 RON' as in the T-jet 155, MA 135, MA 170, etc. I would expect the 103bhp Twin Air to include the 'or 98 RON'.
Looking back on previous posts on this thread the PDF posted by RobW is no longer available. Here is a report (Click here) comparing the various fuels that would be of benefit to 'tuned' TwinAir, T-jets (doesn't include the 120), Multi-airs (MA135, MA170). There was an article in Evo Jan 2006 which I haven't seen.
Shell V Power differs across Europe with Germany getting 100 Octane and Ireland 95 Octane ! Maxol claim that their fuel here in Ireland is 98 Octane and it's labelled E5 at the pumps but then petrol everywhere now has a 5% ethanol content. This ethanol content has drawbacks since the petrol 'goes off'. I now let the tank run out and get a full 'fresh' tank since petrol is always rising in price.
A recent change that I've made with new spark plugs and a new K&N Filter has made the car a lot more lively with better low down pull. The money spend on the more expensive fuel (in the case of a F500) would better spend on more regular servicing.
http://www.fuelsaving.info/fuels.htm
Finally, "premium" fuels usually contain more effective detergent additives.... but if I did want additional cleaning I would more inclined to run my car on a "premium" fuel for a month or so than to spend the same money on an aftermarket cleaning product.
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Ethanol
has a much lower energy content than petrol and adding 5% ethanol will (in theory) reduce mpg by about 2%. It also can cause problems with seals, gaskets & filters, particularly in older cars.For this reason, if your chosen high performance fuel has a lower ethanol content than what you were using before, you may benefit from an increase in mpg even if your car can't take advantage of the higher octane rating.
This is a massively gross oversimplification & it would easily be possible for someone to trawl the internet & post multiple pages of relevant quotations & continue this with a right royal forum debate
.Have a look in particular at the comparative ethanol vs pure petrol mpg figures for cars specifically designed to run on E85 - the results are scary & current plans to 'silently' increase the ethanol content of our petrol could cost us all a little in extra fuel consumption.
I'll bet when manufacturers are conducting their 'official' economy tests (or should that be concocting; either way the emphasis is on the 'con'), they'll not be running on blended fuel.
I have a tesco fuel card. For coming up to 2 years my C1 has only
ever had Tesco petrol in it.
Where I live the Tesco fuel comes from the Texaco refinery at Cardiff docks.
I have had zero problems with starting, running or anything. My motor is Japanese. It even has Toyota written on it.
I drive my car in a very spirited manner, being a vvt it loves going over 4000rpm up to the red line.
You can see my fuelly below. What all this means? I'm buggered if I know.
ever had Tesco petrol in it.
Where I live the Tesco fuel comes from the Texaco refinery at Cardiff docks.
I have had zero problems with starting, running or anything. My motor is Japanese. It even has Toyota written on it.
I drive my car in a very spirited manner, being a vvt it loves going over 4000rpm up to the red line.
You can see my fuelly below. What all this means? I'm buggered if I know.
I think it shows the C1 has solid eco credentials.
Of course, that's not the only reason for choosing a car... I passed over a C1 twice in favour of a 500 & Panda, partly because I didn't like the driving characteristics of the three pot engine, & partly because I felt the interior trim looked like something out of a Tesco Xmas cracker.
But they do seem to be a good cheap car for all that. The badge-enginereed low-cost versions of the Up! will likely steal a few sales when they hit the streets.
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Ethanol
I think you can now claim victory on the 60mpg 1.2 since the E5 blend has robbed you of the 1-2 mpg you were looking for.
I did look into E85 when it was getting a lot of promotion but after getting 'burnt' by LPG and the way the government gave incentives and then 'took them away' I didn't commit. In a way it was a shame it was dis-continued since the bio-fuel was being produced as a by-product.
The only feasible way currently of getting the benefits of the octane content of bio-fuel is by turbo charging since the govermment has a stipulation that all petrol engines must be able to run on 95 octane.
I think you can now claim victory on the 60mpg 1.2 since the E5 blend has robbed you of the 1-2 mpg you were looking for.
Thanks, but I'm still hopeful of making the magic number over the summer so I'm not claiming victory yet!
I have no doubt you'll make it.
I'm having a rough time with fuel economy!
Have had a couple of really bad fuel ups. Car needs a service which I think will give it a couple of MPG back. Have got a tank of V-Power in and with some careful driving it's doing much better. Been going for a lot of spirited drives of late which have effected economy, that said when I went for a spirited drive in the Subaru it did 28mpg and that was getting caught up behind traffic for a good part of the drive so 44mpg doesn't seem quite so bad considering the 500 is pretty much flat out
How long have they been doing this chart of all your fuelups? I like!
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/306maxi/500/fuelchart
ahmett
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37 mpg on my end. Acceptable really for the 1.4. I have a wierd noise coming in when i just touch the accelerator the first time as it selects and then it disappears. This has happened since my car got fixed under warranty (gearbox seal). I think i will take it in for them to have a look since the dealer is 200 meters from my office. Funny but its worked fine with that noise and no indications on the dashboard saying fix something. Sounds like the timing belt?
I like too!
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/jrkitching/500/fuelchart
Had an unexpectedly bad result from a tank of fuel when I filled up at ADSA the week of the tanker driver's scare
. There's one journey I do sufficiently often to be able to pick up relatively small differences & it came out about 5% down on what I'd expect from branded UL95. Didn't feel it was running as smoothly & ended up going another couple of hundred rpm in the intermediates, which probably didn't help either.
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I like too!
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/jrkitching/500/fuelchart
Had an unexpectedly bad result from a tank of fuel when I filled up at ADSA the week of the tanker driver's scare
Yeah, I just don't fill up with supermarket petrol these days. Lately I've been using BP fuel as I've been too lazy to go to the Shell's which are a little less convenient. Car is running nicely on its V-Power I must say.
ahmett
Prominent member
Perhaps on long journeys lets say 100 miles + its best to open the wallet up and buy 'performance fuel'? Thats what a fuel station attendant told me he said yes its best to get it when you actually drive, it hardly makes a difference when you are stuck in traffic. intercity is best when you actually open up the engine a bit.
(of course i am a city guy so i guess rural people have more fun with their cars!)
Ummmm whatever.
Maxi, I'm pleased to see you've noticed a difference as well when filling up with V-Power - at least I have someone else to back me up that it does actually appear to do something, haha!
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Maxi, I'm pleased to see you've noticed a difference as well when filling up with V-Power - at least I have someone else to back me up that it does actually appear to do something, haha!
I've re-looked that this V-power performance increase on the 500 1.2 and it would appear that yourself & Maxi might not be dreaming after all.
The compression ratio on the 500 with 69bhp is 11.1:1.
This compares with 9.8:1 on the Panda Euro 4 which spits out 60bhp.The Clio in that videoclip was a 'lowly' 1.2 (1149cc) 60bhp with a compression ratio of 9.6:1 so demonstrating that using higher octance fuel was a waste of money would have 'held true'.
The 500 is in the 'street performance' compression category
when compared with the Clio above and a Porsche Boxter with a 12.5:1.A comparative model compression wise is the Suzuki Swift Sports with has a ratio of 11. It's recommended that this runs on 98RON to get the full performance.
http://www.carandsuv.co.nz/articles/suzuki-swift-sport-review
To get the power Suzuki recommends 98 octane fuel which is more expensive, though bear in mind sometimes using a higher octane fuel can be more efficient than lower octane, but we couldn’t verify this on this test.
In addition, given that there's a knock sensor on the 1.2 it can advance the ignition to get the extra performance.
http://fuelsaving.info/fuels.htm
Certain engines - especially turbos - are "knock limited", that is to say, the ignition cannot be advanced to the optimum point because the fuel/air mixture explodes spontaneously causing engine damage. The higher octane rating allows more ignition advance and hence more torque. Providing the engine ECU has a knock sensor, it will automatically add this extra ignition advance whenever V-Power is used.
It just goes to show you that you can't always believe what's in the handbook.
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I'm not going to say it's more powerful because these sort of things are very much open to the placebo effect, but it does seem to be running a little smoother.
Our Subaru definitely has a few extra horsies when running on BP Ultimate or V-Power. Being a turbo though, means that it benefits from better fuel that bit more.
Our Subaru definitely has a few extra horsies when running on BP Ultimate or V-Power. Being a turbo though, means that it benefits from better fuel that bit more.
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Powerful might be too strong a word on a 1.2
but to get the effects of the higher octane you have to run the car on the good stuff for longer. It supposedly can take 2-3 tanks before the effects are taken. ECU re-acts promptly if the octane drops but is slow to advance with the better fuel. I've been 'experimenting' with the Maxol E5 but it would need a RR or a track to see the difference. Supposedly makes a difference of 5 bhp on a turbo charged car. Imagine on a NA like the 1.2 it's probably only 1-2bhp but the differences in torque is the key one which results in better economy.
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Great bit of research as always by loveshandbags, haha!
I do agree with Maxi though, although I am a regular user of the stuff I'm not going to rule out the placebo effect by any means.
However I've been using the stuff for a long time now and I really think it has its benefits in terms of the engine running smoother.
In addition I've been collecting my V Power points religiously and have been getting £6 per quarter in money-off vouchers. Not a huge amount by any means but it basically equates to around 1.5% of my annual fuel bill (£24 out of £1500 a year fuel bill), or a fraction over 2p a litre off the forecourt price.
Of course there is still a premium of around 5p per litre over regular unleaded, but if it's true that fuel consumption is reduced as a result, you can probably knock another few pence per litre off as well - so the gap in price may well be smaller than you think between the two....all IMO of course!
I do agree with Maxi though, although I am a regular user of the stuff I'm not going to rule out the placebo effect by any means.
However I've been using the stuff for a long time now and I really think it has its benefits in terms of the engine running smoother.
In addition I've been collecting my V Power points religiously and have been getting £6 per quarter in money-off vouchers. Not a huge amount by any means but it basically equates to around 1.5% of my annual fuel bill (£24 out of £1500 a year fuel bill), or a fraction over 2p a litre off the forecourt price.
Of course there is still a premium of around 5p per litre over regular unleaded, but if it's true that fuel consumption is reduced as a result, you can probably knock another few pence per litre off as well - so the gap in price may well be smaller than you think between the two....all IMO of course!
