I'm enjoying the much smoother ride with my winters 
General Which winter tyres are people going for
- Thread starter rallycinq
- Start date
Currently reading:
General Which winter tyres are people going for
One thing i have found is due to the amount of water the winters pump away the car ends up filthy far quicker still gives me a chance to clean it more often
still gives me a chance to clean it more often 
One thing i have found is due to the amount of water the winters pump away the car ends up filthy far quicker
I scared he bejeezus out of the wife yesterday whilst showing her the fantastic aquaplaning resistance of the winters and I swerved towards a deep puddle on the side of the road just a few inches from a nice big dry stone wall and she cacked herself
Was right about here
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.098...zefo2H1UMfpXjGfZf7ZnuQ&cbp=12,160.31,,0,12.19
Car steered absolutely straight and didn't get pulled towards the wall at all like it would have been if it had summer tyres on
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
Spoke to a 'Mary' in the 'Broker' setup. They have a 'direct line' to the underwriter which is Aviva (branches here are closing down with all 'contact' going to the UK).
On a follow up call to check on 'what was happening' I had a very interesting conversation on a noisy train. She spoke from a 'brief' that they got from their underwriter. It's amazing how countries differ. I challenged her on the 7 degree 'thing' and when I get the email I'll post it. Essentially they did not want me to fit the winter tyres stating that they had a preference for all seasons. And sure why not fit good tyres like I did last year and you'll be able to cope. I reckon this personal update from 'Mary' in the broker will change when the underwriting side of Aviva is coming from the UK. Also if I go 'outside' the manufactures sizes in the manual I would need 'someone' e.g. a 'tyre expert'
I'll look forward to the outcome
I think I make a mistake on asking for an email.
I preferred the original brief of 'once there is no change in performance there is no problem changing the size'. This was a recorded conversation that I had dated so a transcript could have been requested if I had a 'spot of bother'. The email below is quite specific about the conditions of use on the winter tyres and does reflect the key points from the last conversation. To use the 15x175/60 I would need to get a 'tyre expert' - not too sure where I would get one of them.
Lesson learned: Quit while you're ahead
.Car Insurance Policy Number:xxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxx
Hi Michael,
Please see below terms and conditions for using winter tyres for the above policy.
Winter Tyres –Please note it is the clients responsibility to ensure the tyres on their vehicle are appropriate based on recommendations from manufacturer/tyre experts.
While winter tyres do not compromise handling or safety they have an aggressive thread pattern which make them more appropriate for use in temperatures under 7 degrees. Therefore, under the duty of care condition these tyres (winter tyres) should not be left on the car all year round.
All weather tyres are suitable for use all year round.
We trust this is to your satisfaction however if you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us on 1890 22 11 11.
Kind regards
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Customer Services Representative
One Direct
One House
Athlone Business Park
Athlone
Co Westmeath
Last edited:
take it the Irish insurance co's are much more strict then.....
tell them your going to put some £20 a corner all weather tyres on then embed it in a wall in the snow then blame them :devil:
That s silly i know
But that magic 7^C so your Ok to drive to work at 7 am as its under 7^C what happens if you nip out for your lunch and its 15^c do they expect you to change your tyres...
take a look here
http://www.abi.org.uk/Information/C...r_Tyres__The_Motor_Insurance_Committment.aspx
even though Aviva didnt want to know on the list... they still got told!
tell them your going to put some £20 a corner all weather tyres on then embed it in a wall in the snow then blame them :devil:
That s silly i know
But that magic 7^C so your Ok to drive to work at 7 am as its under 7^C what happens if you nip out for your lunch and its 15^c do they expect you to change your tyres...
take a look here
http://www.abi.org.uk/Information/C...r_Tyres__The_Motor_Insurance_Committment.aspx
even though Aviva didnt want to know on the list... they still got told!
Last edited:
The commitment of insurers:
The insurers named below do not require the payment of any additional premium if customers decide to fit winter tyres to their cars, provided that the tyres meet, and are fitted in accordance with, the relevant vehicle manufacturers’ specifications and are in a roadworthy condition whilst in use.
Insurer
Do customers need to inform the insurer when fitting winter tyres to their cars?
Does the fitting of winter tyres affect the amount of cover provided to customers?
Contact details
1st Central Insurance
No
No
ABC Insurance
No
No
Admiral
No
No
Adrian Flux
No
No
Advantage Insurance Company Limited (Gibraltar)
No
No
Age UK
No
No
Ageas Insurance Ltd
No
No
Aioi Nissay Dowa Insurance
No
No
Allianz
No
No
Allianz (Northern Ireland)
No
No
Allianz Your Cover
No
No
Aviva Insurance Ltd
No
No
AXA
Yes
No
As per policy documentation (varies by distribution channel)
Bell
No
No
Chaucer Direct
No
No
Chaucer Insurance
No
No
Churchill
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0845 603 3551
Citroen
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 0242 730/ 0870 125 6616
Co-operative Insurance Car Insurance
No
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
Co-operative Insurance Eco Insurance
No
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
Co-operative Insurance Young Driver Insurance
No
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
Cornish Mutual
No
No
Diamond
No
No
Direct Line
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0845 246 8706/ 0845 246 8811
eCar
Yes, by phone or email
No
[email protected]
Echoice
No
No
Egg
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 024 0095/ 0870 024 0097
Elephant
No
No
Equity Red Star
No
No
Esure Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 603 7874
First Alternative Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 607 0417
General Motors (Vauxhall & Chevrolet)
No
No
GoodGirl
No
No change to cover provided
Groupama Insurances
No - unless the dimensions of the tyres fitted are contrary to manufacturer specifications i.e. wider
No
Highway Insurance
No
No
Hiscox Insurance Company
No
No
Insure2Drive
No
No change to cover provided
Lexus Motor Insurance
No
No
LV =
No
No
Mint/MBNA
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 024 0138
MORE TH>N
No
No
Natwest
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 051 0289/ 0800 051 5405
NFU Mutual
No
No
Octagon Insurance Company Limited
Yes, by phone
No
Customer services, 0844 561 4615
Peugeot
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 0240 807/ 0870 024 1107
Premier Insurance
No
No
Privilege
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 061 6990/ 0800 051 6990
Provident
Yes – Either at new business stage or as a Mid Term Adjustment
No
Via the broker through which the policy was purchased
Prudential
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 300 300/ 0845 605 9260
QBE
No
No
RBS
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 158 2493/ 0845 246 0453
Royal London
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 032 9455
RSA
No
No
Sabre Insurance Co Ltd
No
No change to cover provided
Sainsbury’s Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 608 6034
Service Underwriting
No
No
Shearwater Insurance
No
No
Sheilas' Wheels Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 604 3550
Swiftcover
Yes
No
As per policy documentation (varies by distribution channel)
Tesco Underwriting Limited
No – Providing that the winter tyres/wheels are no larger than the original tyres/wheels
No – Providing that the winter tyres/wheels are no larger than the original tyres/wheels.
If customers wish to contact Tesco Car Insurance they can call Customer Service on 0845 673 0000
Toyota Motor Insurance
No
No
UKI
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
Contact details can be found via the intermediary
USAA Limited
No
No
Zurich Car Solutions
No
No
The insurers named below do not require the payment of any additional premium if customers decide to fit winter tyres to their cars, provided that the tyres meet, and are fitted in accordance with, the relevant vehicle manufacturers’ specifications and are in a roadworthy condition whilst in use.
Insurer
Do customers need to inform the insurer when fitting winter tyres to their cars?
Does the fitting of winter tyres affect the amount of cover provided to customers?
Contact details
1st Central Insurance
No
No
ABC Insurance
No
No
Admiral
No
No
Adrian Flux
No
No
Advantage Insurance Company Limited (Gibraltar)
No
No
Age UK
No
No
Ageas Insurance Ltd
No
No
Aioi Nissay Dowa Insurance
No
No
Allianz
No
No
Allianz (Northern Ireland)
No
No
Allianz Your Cover
No
No
Aviva Insurance Ltd
No
No
AXA
Yes
No
As per policy documentation (varies by distribution channel)
Bell
No
No
Chaucer Direct
No
No
Chaucer Insurance
No
No
Churchill
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0845 603 3551
Citroen
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 0242 730/ 0870 125 6616
Co-operative Insurance Car Insurance
No
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
Co-operative Insurance Eco Insurance
No
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
Co-operative Insurance Young Driver Insurance
No
No, provided the winter tyres/wheels fitted are of no greater size value than the tyres/wheels being replaced
Cornish Mutual
No
No
Diamond
No
No
Direct Line
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0845 246 8706/ 0845 246 8811
eCar
Yes, by phone or email
No
[email protected]
Echoice
No
No
Egg
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 024 0095/ 0870 024 0097
Elephant
No
No
Equity Red Star
No
No
Esure Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 603 7874
First Alternative Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 607 0417
General Motors (Vauxhall & Chevrolet)
No
No
GoodGirl
No
No change to cover provided
Groupama Insurances
No - unless the dimensions of the tyres fitted are contrary to manufacturer specifications i.e. wider
No
Highway Insurance
No
No
Hiscox Insurance Company
No
No
Insure2Drive
No
No change to cover provided
Lexus Motor Insurance
No
No
LV =
No
No
Mint/MBNA
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 024 0138
MORE TH>N
No
No
Natwest
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 051 0289/ 0800 051 5405
NFU Mutual
No
No
Octagon Insurance Company Limited
Yes, by phone
No
Customer services, 0844 561 4615
Peugeot
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0870 0240 807/ 0870 024 1107
Premier Insurance
No
No
Privilege
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 061 6990/ 0800 051 6990
Provident
Yes – Either at new business stage or as a Mid Term Adjustment
No
Via the broker through which the policy was purchased
Prudential
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 300 300/ 0845 605 9260
QBE
No
No
RBS
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 158 2493/ 0845 246 0453
Royal London
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
0800 032 9455
RSA
No
No
Sabre Insurance Co Ltd
No
No change to cover provided
Sainsbury’s Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 608 6034
Service Underwriting
No
No
Shearwater Insurance
No
No
Sheilas' Wheels Car Insurance
No - unless the customer has or is fitting alloy wheels
No
Phone: 0845 604 3550
Swiftcover
Yes
No
As per policy documentation (varies by distribution channel)
Tesco Underwriting Limited
No – Providing that the winter tyres/wheels are no larger than the original tyres/wheels
No – Providing that the winter tyres/wheels are no larger than the original tyres/wheels.
If customers wish to contact Tesco Car Insurance they can call Customer Service on 0845 673 0000
Toyota Motor Insurance
No
No
UKI
Yes, via telephone
None outside of general market exceptions relating to keeping the vehicle roadworthy etc.
Contact details can be found via the intermediary
USAA Limited
No
No
Zurich Car Solutions
No
No
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2008
- Messages
- 257
- Points
- 46
To use the 15x175/60 I would need to get a 'tyre expert' - not too sure where I would get one of them.
Les
KwikFit?
I think I make a mistake on asking for an email.
The email below is quite specific about the conditions of use on the winter tyres and does reflect the key points from the last conversation. To use the 15x175/60 I would need to get a 'tyre expert' - not too sure where I would get one of them.
Lesson learned: Quit while you're ahead
Car Insurance Policy Number:xxxxxxxxx/xxxxxxx
Hi Michael,
Please see below terms and conditions for using winter tyres for the above policy.
Winter Tyres –Please note it is the clients responsibility to ensure the tyres on their vehicle are appropriate based on recommendations from manufacturer/tyre experts.
While winter tyres do not compromise handling or safety they have an aggressive thread pattern which make them more appropriate for use in temperatures under 7 degrees. Therefore, under the duty of care condition these tyres (winter tyres) should not be left on the car all year round.
All weather tyres are suitable for use all year round.
We trust this is to your satisfaction however if you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us on 1890 22 11 11.
Kind regards
xxxxxxxxxxxx
Customer Services Representative
One Direct
One House
Athlone Business Park
Athlone
Co Westmeath
My theoretical letter back to them.
Dear Insurance company moron,
**** off with your silly attempts at scaring me into being a compliant, weak little customer of yours. I know the rules and if I want to run winter tyres all year I will. It's the ****ing law and there's not a thing you can do about it. EU law states that any tyre which meets the weight ratings as stipulated by the car manufacturer, caries an E marking and is driven at a speed which doesn't exceed the speed rating of the tyre is legal and you have to provide me with insurance and you have to pay out. So kindly take your dishonest letter and stick it where the sun don't shine
Lots of love
Michael (my name is Daniel really!
)Insurance companies have people so scared with all of the terms and conditions in the policy, a lot of which aren't actually legally enforceable and if they chose to disallow a claim and you took them to court you would win. That's not to say that running winter tyres in the summer isn't a bad idea, it's just that there is no legal basis for an insurance company to disallow a claim even if the accident wouldn't have happened if you were on summer tyres. An E mark is an E mark is an E mark is an E mark.....
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2010
- Messages
- 3,696
- Points
- 796
Depends if it actually says that in the policy or not. It probably doesn't, in which case I agree with you that they could not squirm out of a claim.
But if they bothered to make it a condition that you not fit winter tyres between April and September then if you breached that, then they would not be liable to indemnify you (other than in respect of compulsory risks).
They could require you to wear pink fluffy slippers if they wanted to. wouldn't be a great business decision, but parties generally have freedom to contract how they like.
But if they bothered to make it a condition that you not fit winter tyres between April and September then if you breached that, then they would not be liable to indemnify you (other than in respect of compulsory risks).
They could require you to wear pink fluffy slippers if they wanted to. wouldn't be a great business decision, but parties generally have freedom to contract how they like.
Law > Contract.
If I wrote a contract which stated that if you give me £5 I won't kill you and you didn't pay me and then I killed you for not paying, is my action therefore legal because I laid it out in the contract and all parties were aware?
I'd suggest that it's not.
Any tyre which is E-marked is legal and approved for use in the EU. Just as any bulb, brake pads or light fittings with the E mark are 110% legal for use in the EU. This is why you can buy the nastiest set of E marked Chinese tyres, put them on your car and aquaplane off the road and your insurance still has to cover you. Ever wonder why the insurance companies last year never tried to weasel out of any claims because people were using summer tyres in the snow and ice? Because there is 0 legal basis for doing so, in Germany there is a law, but in the UK there is none, therefore any E-marked tyre meeting the car manufacturers specs is 100% legal.
Parties have freedom of contract but only when it doesn't break the law
That said you can still make the contract and still enforce it and if the poor person on the other end doesn't think to challenge you then you can happily go around disallowing claims, but at one point you'll do it to the wrong person and end up on watchdog.As an example, your insurance company wanted to have a clause in the policy that said you'd have to pay a higher premium if you fitted seat covers then they could do this as there's AFAIK no protection afforded by the law when it comes to seat coverings.
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 3,769
- Points
- 568
take it the Irish insurance co's are much more strict then.....
tell them your going to put some £20 a corner all weather tyres on then embed it in a wall in the snow then blame them :devil:
That s silly i know
But that magic 7^C so your Ok to drive to work at 7 am as its under 7^C what happens if you nip out for your lunch and its 15^c do they expect you to change your tyres...
take a look here
http://www.abi.org.uk/Information/C...r_Tyres__The_Motor_Insurance_Committment.aspx
even though Aviva didnt want to know on the list... they still got told!
Thanks for that Andy.
Noticed that AXA are looking to be informed - that explains my mate's 'you need to tell your insurance...'
Other 2 items that I took from it..
Please note that this Commitment only applies to cars used for personal use that are insured under a private or personal use car insurance policy
My OH is on a particular type of business insurance policy which allows her to carry goods so it would not apply to her
are fitted in accordance with, the relevant vehicle manufacturers’ specifications
Aviva were allowing me to have a 'tyre expert' for a size different to the manufaturer's handbook.
Given the 'cut throat' nature of the insurance business 'car insurance' here is losing them money. Some are looking at angles on reducing their liability on paying out by apportioning blame on you (I've experienced this).
On the £20 All seasons tyre in each corner they will probably argue that 'once there is no change in performance there is no problem changing...' and produce a transcript of the conversation I've had with them.
I suppose a lesson for me is that if you have an accident it might be worthwhile taking a picture of the temperature read out IF it can work in your favour
. On one occassion I have to get a report from the Met office on 'that night in question'.To give Aviva their due they've been upfront and have been reasonable to deal with. After my experience with one particular insurance company (I'll hold off on naming them) I swore I would always go through a broker.
Last edited:
One thing that should be mentioned, there is actually no obligation to inform your insurer.
You don't need to inform your insurer if you fit cheap E marked Chinese tyres even though they may be significantly worse in terms of performance than a new set of the tyres they've replaced. All E marked tyres are legal for use in Europe as long as everything else like the weight rating, tread depth and so on complies with local law.
Thanks for that Andy.
Noticed that AXA are looking to be informed - that explains my mate's 'you need to tell your insurance...'
Other 2 items that I took from it..
Please note that this Commitment only applies to cars used for personal use that are insured under a private or personal use car insurance policy
My OH is on a particular type of business insurance policy which allows her to carry goods so it would not apply to her
are fitted in accordance with, the relevant vehicle manufacturers’ specifications
Aviva were allowing me to have a 'tyre expert' for a size different to the manufaturer's handbook.
Given the 'cut throat' nature of the insurance business 'car insurance' here is losing them money. Some are looking at angles on reducing their liability on paying out by apportioning blame on you (I've experienced this).
On the £20 All seasons tyre in each corner they will probably argue that 'once there is no change in performance there is no problem changing...' and produce a transcript of the conversation I've had with them.
I suppose a lesson for me is that if you have an accident it might be worthwhile taking a picture of the temperature read out IF it can work in your favour
To give Aviva their due they've been upfront and have been reasonable to deal. After my experience with one particular insurance company (I'll hold off on naming them) I swore I would always go through a broker.
If I'm honest Michael, I'd be extremely wary of running anything other than the tyres specified by the manufacturer. The whole "change in performance" thing is very wishy washy and if the poop hit the fan them I'm sure they'd use it against you.
As for temperature, if they try to ping you on that I'd just quote the relevant EU laws as well as the Irish ones with regards to tyres. 4 words you won't find in there are winter, all weather and summer. Show them the E mark on the tyre and then tell them to give you your cheque
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2010
- Messages
- 3,696
- Points
- 796
Law > Contract.
If I wrote a contract which stated that if you give me £5 I won't kill you and you didn't pay me and then I killed you for not paying, is my action therefore legal because I laid it out in the contract and all parties were aware?
I'd suggest that it's not.
Any tyre which is E-marked is legal and approved for use in the EU. Just as any bulb, brake pads or light fittings with the E mark are 110% legal for use in the EU. This is why you can buy the nastiest set of E marked Chinese tyres, put them on your car and aquaplane off the road and your insurance still has to cover you. Ever wonder why the insurance companies last year never tried to weasel out of any claims because people were using summer tyres in the snow and ice? Because there is 0 legal basis for doing so, in Germany there is a law, but in the UK there is none, therefore any E-marked tyre meeting the car manufacturers specs is 100% legal.
Parties have freedom of contract but only when it doesn't break the law
As an example, your insurance company wanted to have a clause in the policy that said you'd have to pay a higher premium if you fitted seat covers then they could do this as there's AFAIK no protection afforded by the law when it comes to seat coverings.
Maxi - you are wrong on this one. Your killing example is invalid because there is a difference between illegality in the sense of being proscribed by the criminal law, and legality in the sense of being permitted.
At the end of the day it is a bit like if you insurance says that other drivers can drive if they are over 25: you could not make a claim if you let a 19 year old drive just by saying that he has a licence and is legally entitled to drive and so the insurance company could not prevent him from being allowed to drive.
My only point is that everyone should READ THE CONTRACT.
but there is difference here and no fine line, i.e. if temp hits 13degs during the afternoon do you not drive with winters ?
You are no more legally obliged to take winter tyres off in warm weather than you are to take your winter jacket and thermals off on a 30 degree day.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2010
- Messages
- 3,696
- Points
- 796
Please try to understand before one of us dies.
Whenever two parties contract with each other, they can choose the terms on which they do business unless they break the law (for example by discriminating against you on the grounds of race). An insurance company could, in theory, choose to say that they will only insure you to drive at certain times or on certain classes of roads. In fact, for young drivers some do.
In the same way, if they wanted to, they could say that you cannot use winter tyres.
I agree, however, that if they do not actually say so in black and white then they would not be likely to succeed if they refused to pay out just becuase you had winter tyres on in summer or whenever.
Basically, it is not breaking the law to forbid your customers to use winter tyres. Stupid, yes, illegal, no.
Your example is flawed though.
There is no law that says that if you have insurance on a car and you want to allow an unnamed 19 year old drive it that they must cover you.
The law however does state that they MUST cover you if you have e-marked tyres on your car, no mention is made of winter, all season or summer tyres. Not insuring your car because you've got e-marked winter tyres on is illegal.
This protection is there for the consumer so for instance he or she can walk into halfords and pick up bulbs for their car and know that they're 100% legal because they're e-marked. Are there bulbs around which would make you more visible, give you a better view of the road and therefore lower the chance of an accident? Yes, but if your really crappy bulb is e-marked then it's 100% legal even if it's not that great.
E-markings are there to protect the customer and mean that the customer doesn't need to do research to find out what the best bulbs or tyres are if they merely want to be legal.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark"]CE mark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Inconformity through conformity I say!
