Here it is, officially the new Panda

[The Panda Nut]

I was slating the Grandland for its 1.2 engine being tiny. 1.2 is optimal for a car the size of the Panda, even without a turbo

1.2 is bourgoise, decadent and overly large. OTT and far to big. Whats more the 0.9 ones are quicker, at least with the rotary economy device fitted.

I’m quite pleased reading the posts of the TwinAir owners starting to rack up some serious mileage. It shows how well engineered Fiat’s engines are when they put their mind to it. In contrast to the rest of the industry, many of whom are racing lawsuits for how bad their small engines with big turbos. Ford is the most notable example with the EcoBoost and the fires

I considered the TA carefully and decided that if the 500 managed to last 50 years + in some cases in original condition a modern engine from the same maker with all that experience should be sound. The 1.6 diesel fiat engine I had in the Bravo was a masterpiece of engineering. I miss the Bravo and the combination of 70mpg at 70mph. Not a lot wrong with the Fiat engines and they make a good noise too.

I have covered 350K at least in Fiats with not major breakdowns. My dads Fiats were also faultless.PSA in about 275K suffered 3 very costly failures. Dads 307 back in teh 70s lost a cam chain at about 50K and was wrecked by it. VW in 200K 1 breakdown but it was terminal, Renault was about 550K and to their credit no major breakdowns. Gear linkage fell off on my 12TS but at over 100K it was only a £3.50 part so not a deal breaker. Vauxhall 1 fail in 400K, Ford 1 in 200K, it didnt strand me though. Make of that what you will. The only maker that has left a foul smell and bad taste is VW and the failing turbos fitted to the 2.0TDI it was also riddled with rattles and squeaks and groans from everything. The only redeeming feature of the Golf GTD was it was a great car to drive and economical.... when it went properly. The Leon has been exellent except the engine is done now at just 135K and considering its had the best of servicing thats not great. I was begging my daughter to get shot of it asap at the weekend. But she thinks it will go a bit longer.......

 

[The Pretender]

I was slating the Grandland for its 1.2 engine being tiny. 1.2 is optimal for a car the size of the Panda, even without a turbo

New pandas will be a B-segment car with a length of around 4mtr.

 

[AndyRKett]

Basic construction of any engine whether it be from Fiat Ford or VW is the fueling is by bosch. the turbo made by a company like garrett. The sensors made my lucas, bosch, siemens etc. The belts oils and seals all bought in and made by outside companies.

All that fiat, Citron or Vauxhall do or in this case one factory servicing all 3 brands now with engines, is make the cast block, make the cylinder head, make the crank, connecting rods and pistons, then assemble all of that into an engine with all the bits they buy in from else where.

One thing that has to be said is the Puretech has been around a while and they've had a chance to iron things out.
The Twinair is not known for its long term reliability and while there will always be outsiders that do make it to 150k miles, that is not a common feat. most seem to change hands at sub 100k mileages, you don't see many/any with much above that. make of that what you will.

The FireFly engine is an evolution of the twinair and multiair engines, using a very complex valve block to manage the valve timing. This is likely to add considerable cost to the manufacturing over a more conventional engine. If you make a million engines and each one needs 20 extra rubber o-rings that cost an additional 50p then thats half a million quid, not to mention all the other complex features of the firefly.

There is no point getting hung up on who actually made an engine, Fiat or Citroen, they are all made in factories that use the same tools and processes, the only thing that matters to a consumer is performance, reliability and efficiency, that is a triangle where an increase in one will always lead to a decrease in one of the other two.
The manufacturer cares about salability of the engine, so performance economy and reliability as well as cost and complexity.
So that all said I would guess Stellantis looked all all the options and decided to Bin off the Firefly in favor of what they deemed to be the best engine to go with.

 

[SB1500]

New pandas will be a B-segment car with a length of around 4mtr.

Makes sense with the Stellantis framework for platform sharing going forward.

The A-segment seems dead. Most big makes have killed off their A-segment cars, I know they say the reason is 'safety', but I suspect it's more about fitting in EV / Hybrid tech in affordably. Since the NCAP is only concerned with electronic safety bolt-ons these days, which would be fairly cheap and easy to put in even a small A-segment car.

I was never a fan of these 'crossover' 'SUV' things in theory, having never driven one other than a one off drive of a modern Suzuki Vitara which handled like a bathtub. 1.5 weeks in with one, I'm even more down about the fact everything seems to be becoming a crossover... Confusing because the A-segment of cheap / simple / economical cars was incredibly high volume. As was the C-segment of hatchbacks so it's a mystery to me why they're all being killed off in favour of small crossover things.

Sadly, the new Panda, and Panda 4x4, will probably be circled to fit this direction perfectly. The average consumer seemingly can't tell the difference in the off roading / rugged capability of say, a Suzuki Jimny versus a 4x4 Evoque, despite the fact the ride height and bumpers of the Evoque make it less capable off road than even a 2wd Panda with a decent set of mud tyres in practice. Still, the manufacturers can charge more for it, and consumers will pay it for the elusive '4x4' or 'all road' badge on the back, a true sign of prestige at the school car park during drop-off, right?

 

[The Pretender]

I really hope for the 1.2 Puretech 48v Hybrid 136 hp engine, so that there is some decent power in it.
Or a Abarth Panda wit 155 hp EV motor.

 

[StevenRB45]

It'll depend on where they place it in the range the 136 tends to get put in bigger cars.

However they don't seem to add the power figures for a total...so the 100bhp hybrid seems to be 100bhp turbo petrol + a 14bhp electric motor...unless the insinuation is they never work together.

 

[The Pretender]

The Hybrid 136 hp is also used in the new Peugeot 208.

 

[StevenRB45]

The Hybrid 136 hp is also used in the new Peugeot 208.

Aye but the 208 also got the 130bhp, the C3 on which the Panda is based never got more than 110.

Although in terms of speed...there's very little between them. Only small cars with a "sporty" version got the 130/136 so Corsa SRI and 208 GT line.

For some reason I don't think they'll be making a sporty panda.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Those wheels aren't an improvement

 

[The Pretender]

Those wheels aren't an improvement

I think they do.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I think they do.

Those ones are good.

 

[The Pretender]

Those ones are good.

wheel covers.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

wheel covers.

Yes, very much in keeping with the Panda I thought.