General My 1.4 16v Cinquecento Development thread

[arc]

Just over a month ago, my 1242 8v MPI blew its head gasket. I had vowed not to change it again on that engine, so true to my word I did not.

Driving back from Bolton today, im watching the temperature gauges. Oil is cooler than usual, around 50c, and water temperature wasnt registering. Odd. So i turned the heaters off and let the engine have some heat back, oil temp begins to climb, water temp starts to register, hits around 70 and then drops off again. How very odd. Hit a slight hill on the motorway and then it starts loosing power, as my speed and revs are dropping, water temp is climbing. GREAT. i know what that means.. engine off and abrupt stop on the hard shoulder, heaters on, rad fan override on, pop the bonnet, but before i do i see the temp still rising, it peaked arond 120c and then sat there.

Looked under the bonnet and there is waterhose off. Had the car not lost power i'd happily convince myself that it was just a pipe coming off leading to a slight overheat, but it didnt play out that way. I walked to the services i'd just past, bought 4.5l of Buxton Spring water and walked back to the car. It had cooled down by now. Filled her. Reattached the hose. Left the expansion cap off and fired her up! ROUGH AS... with bubbles and exhaust fumes coming out the expansion tank.

So that came out;





looks odd this high off the ground



Quick look on ebay and got this from a 2004 Stilo 1.4 16v for £275

dropped it into the car

looked at how close it was and made that sound mechanics make when something looks bad

but it did fit, so that was ok

had the flywheel taken down to 4.7kg

yes.. i know i should've done that before fitting the engine.. but it wasnt ready in time

Wiring and fuel wise my car was setup to run an 8v MPI engine, using wasted spark. The Stilo engine used Coil On Plug, which my ECU can drive if i modified it - but it offers no real world advantage. I fitted a coil pack bracket and matching coils from a MK1 Punto Sporting 1242 16v;

I also fitted the Punto's inlet manifold and throttle body, as the stilo setup was fly by wire and too big to fit in the engine bay.

On the (mk1) 8v engines, the IAT and MAP sensors are seperate units. On the 16v, they are not - so a spot of re-wiring was needed;

one of the problems was that the TDC sensor is in a different location. On the cento, from the crank it goes;
"cam belt | aux belt | TDC trigger ring" This is because its a bit tight with the engine mount. On the 16v's it goes "cam belt| TDC Trigger ring | aux belt". This means if you use the cento alternator and pulley, the TDC sensor is looking at the aux belt, not the teeth. But if you use the 16v alterantor and pulley then the belt fouls the engine mount.

Options are, grind away some of the mount or move the TDC sensor.

Now i know how finicky TDC sensors are and the nightmere it can cause if they're not bob on.. so i chose to leave it alone and attack the mount. Shame the mount was stuck in the car...

sorted!

So yeah, that is how the car stands at the moment. Waiting on delivery of a Supersprint manifold at the moment, will tidy up the wiring and conenct the fuel up sometime this week hopefully.

 

[Si - Punto]

Great progress mate, makes for a nice read so far

 

[jenks69]

For a chef you know your way round an engine

I am daunted at the thought of doing a straight engine swap let alone fitting an engine from something totally differant and making it fit / work!

:worship:

 

[blu73]

was wondering when this thread would appear.. Saw this the other day and i gotta say i'm impressed with your progress so far mate.

PS. Decided having been there that i really need a heated garage. was like full on luxury in there. lol

 

[NaySei]

bloody hell that things gonna flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[cinq117]

well done mate

great read, just wondering was there a reason why you had lighten the flywheel? and what gearbox you using?

Ricky

 

[arseofbox]

The Stilo engine used Coil On Plug, which my ECU can drive if i modified it - but it offers no real world advantage.

CoP offers no advantages to the end user other than specific spark timing. Spark energy's generally lower than for a good standard coil as compromises are made in the way the thing's wound. Plus, making a potted coil last for a decent length of time next to a heat source is rather difficult, typical failure of this is the enamelled winding wire to lead out failing due to vibration induced fatigue.

Plus theyre expensive!

You could compromise by having a dual wind LT coil if you wanted to go sequential.

 

[MRodz]

Quick look on ebay and got this from a 2004 Stilo 1.4 16v for £275

Each time I hear what 1.4 go for in the UK I cry a little...

Progress looks good

 

[arc]

Great progress mate, makes for a nice read so far

ta

For a chef you know your way round an engine

I am daunted at the thought of doing a straight engine swap let alone fitting an engine from something totally differant and making it fit / work!

:worship:

hehe, i work as a chef but my forte is actually more computer networking / programming. but a hands on 'dive right in' approach to anything helps

was wondering when this thread would appear.. Saw this the other day and i gotta say i'm impressed with your progress so far mate.

PS. Decided having been there that i really need a heated garage. was like full on luxury in there. lol

cheers mate, its only moved on a tiny bit since you saw it - i finally untangled them wiring looms and got the bits i needed! got a step closer to getting my own garage back this weekend too, finally got the bathroom suite out of there!

bloody hell that things gonna flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

it will :slayer:

well done mate

great read, just wondering was there a reason why you had lighten the flywheel? and what gearbox you using?

Ricky

cheers mate. i lightened the flywheel because my old engine had one, and i liked how quickly it would rev up. it felt much more responsive.
i am using the original cinquecento sporting gearbox, i'm quite suprised it still works.. my car is pushing 120k and i've had it and driven it hard for around 45k

CoP offers no advantages to the end user other than specific spark timing. Spark energy's generally lower than for a good standard coil as compromises are made in the way the thing's wound. Plus, making a potted coil last for a decent length of time next to a heat source is rather difficult, typical failure of this is the enamelled winding wire to lead out failing due to vibration induced fatigue.

Plus theyre expensive!

You could compromise by having a dual wind LT coil if you wanted to go sequential.

so like i said.. no real world advantage

Each time I hear what 1.4 go for in the UK I cry a little...

Progress looks good

I think getting it for £275 was a lucky find, i've rarely seen them that cheap. It just kills me that the exhaust manifold cost more than the engine

 

[cinq117]

there is nothing better than pictures when someone is explaining or modifying, anyway it seems quite tight at the front, are you going to modify the front panel?

 

[arc]

no, but i am going to cut down the headlight mounting bolt though as it is quite close.. and sits right in the middle of the cam belt - i've had nightmares of it hitting it and shredding the belt.

as you can see from the pics.. its a bit dubious that one!!

 

[cinq117]

yep that is close, i don't blame you having nightmares. i gathered there is no way moving it a tad further back

 

[arc]

no, but if i move it back then the inlet won't clear the firewall at the back!

i'll just attack the bolt with a flapper disc and it wont pose a threat anymore!

 

[jenks69]

hehe, i work as a chef but my forte is actually more computer networking / programming. but a hands on 'dive right in' approach to anything helps

I work in IT and have been a geek for the last 20 years of my life I have a hands on dive right in approach normally followed by a quick dive out get proper help pay for someone else to correct my f**k up LOL!

 

[VII CKS]

Great bargain you got there on the engine!!

Looks great!!

 

[randomizered]

I just removed the headlight and cut the bolt, nice and easy

TO be honest, its pretty stable if you chop the bolt entirely. The clips and the top bolt hold it well

It was close on the sei as well



Looking good though Nice to see someone else doing it

I went to look at a turbo and manifold earlier today....but decided against it in the end.

They do shift

Got any close ups of how much of the mount you had to chop?

You went for the SS then?

Your wiring the MAP up....what management are you going to run :S

Kristian

 

[arc]

i will take some photos of the mount on wednesday. am not wiring the MAP, just the IAT part of it. The thermistor is visible, and its legs are exposed so i checked for continueaty between them and the pins on the connector. Got two which showed the correct results, whacked the meter in reistance mode and then put my finger on the thermistor - the resistance changed.

I'll be using my megasquirt setup, unmodified (apart from the mapping)

yeah, went for a supersprint in the end. I would've bought one eventually, and spent more in the long run by delaying it..so just accepted it has to be bought.

how come you decieded against turbo etc, guessing it wont fit without bonnet bulge?

 

[randomizered]

I didn't see the manifold itself, but yeah, it sits on top.

The turbo itself was in great nick, but then i put on sensible head, and thought of the ££.

Got stuff to fix before the mot anyway which is due in about 2 weeks!

Shame your not on MS2, as my map should work well on yours. Guess you could still use the saprk and fuel maps though

Cheers,

Kristian

 

[arc]

yeah i might upgrade the ECU at some point, will get it running first. Currently it is wired to fire all 4 as one batch, but might move that over to two banks. the injector wiring has it on the loom but i think my wiring harness is missing one of the feed wires for the second bank (i broke it). so would need to fix that first. i do plan to use your fuel and spark tables on my ms1 tho

 

[GhostWKD]

looks interesting mate

ECU stuff scares me... im so happy my RX7 has a Apexi PowerFC ECU which all the tuners know how to map