Technical Wheel nut torque wrench setting

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Technical Wheel nut torque wrench setting

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I've just had new tyres fitted and noticed that the wheel nuts all seem to be slightly tighter than I usually do them. I've just found the workshop manual on here (in the downloads section) that has all of the technical data. For alloys on the 1.2 the setting is 9.8daNm which I believe is 98Nm. Somebody had posted that it was 90Nm which is quite different. What do people use? Would 98Nm be correct for the 100HP?
 
My research a while ago led me to believe that the tightening torque for wheel bolts on alloy wheels should be 98Nm. This has certainly been effective and trouble-free on 2 Panda 4x4s.
I also believe that on steel wheels the figure is 86Nm. which has been used without trouble on my daughter's 1.1 Active for over 4 years.
 
My research a while ago led me to believe that the tightening torque for wheel bolts on alloy wheels should be 98Nm. This has certainly been effective and trouble-free on 2 Panda 4x4s.
I also believe that on steel wheels the figure is 86Nm. which has been used without trouble on my daughter's 1.1 Active for over 4 years.

Settings I use(y)
 
I've heard that it's common for the torque settings to be different for alloy wheels compared to steel ones, that does make sense to me, alloy is a softer material after all, what doesn't make sense in this case, why is it 12Nm higher??
 
Holy thread revival......:D


:yeahthat:

...but since you asked, there's a lot more spring in a steel wheel, and you don't want to risk taking the steel around the mounting hole past its elastic limit. Plus the spring in the steel helps lock the assembly in place; on an alloy wheel, you're depending entirely on the elastic tension in the bolts.

The overtightening risk is much greater than the undertightening risk; if you stretch the bolts, they'll be permanently ruined and won't ever clamp properly again. In the worst case, you could strip a thread, and then it's new hub time.

If you grease the wheel bolts (controversial but it has several advantages), on no account use more than 2/3 of the published figures. I use 55nm on thePanda with steel wheels and greased bolts and have never lost one yet.
 
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Sadly I've never used torque wrench on wheel nuts on any car I've owned. Just a handle about 12" long. Never lost a wheel. For interest, many years ago there was a lot of problems with HGV wheels coming off, after lots of testing it was found that most were caused by over-tightening.
 
Ive been flamed (elsewhere) for raising this very point but a torque wrench is not infallible. For fitting the wheels then of course it makes sense. BUT check tightening can lead to fasteners being over-tightened over time and probably what caused the HGV problems.
In my old heavy industry days we had a spate of failed plant mounting bolts. Routine maintenance required them to be checked with a torque wrench but with vibration and the necessary application of torque to trigger the wrench, they became over-tight and failed.

After that the routines were changed to check for loose bolts only. These days, I'm sure they would use indicator tags as are used on HGV wheel bolts.
 
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Well! I've managed my nuts for over forty years without any problems. We old skool brigade managed to nip up nuts with a wheel wrench, common sense should see you all right..;)
Interesting one this, isn't it? To torque or not to torque? Should the threads be greased or not? If you don't use a torque wrench then how tight is tight? And if you apply even a very light dollop of grease then torque figures are all out the window for a start! As Dave says, I think check tightening almost certainly leads to overtightening - especially with "click" type wrenches - maybe not so much with beam type?.

40+ years ago, when I was "on the tools" in the "big bad city" everything seemed to hinge around bonus times, which boiled down to, the faster you got the job done the more money you earned! I hated it as it encouraged short cuts and devious practice! Back in those days I would have been quite surprised to have seen anyone torquing wheel nuts, it simply took too long. (well, maybe the RR, Jenson, Bristol, Bentley boy's.) Spin them on with your bar straight and then nip them up by bending it over to 90° back on the ground and another quick "nip up" on them all and you're good to go! I would us a "windy gun" to slacken wheel nuts but never to tighten.

We were encouraged to apply a VERY LIGHT smear of Copa Slip to wheel bolts/studs and tighten with a breaker bar. I still have the 14" long (so load applied at 12") Britool bar I bought all those years ago and use it all the time - my oldest friend! Then you have to consider 'how tight is tight?"- Apprentices often used to ask this. We had #Not tight enough #Just nice 'n' tight #far to b****y tight and #OOPS ! Learning "just nice 'n' tight" is a real skill and is, arguably, the most valuable hand skill you can learn. Once you developed this skill it can be applied to most common sizes of nuts and bolts, although very small ones still need care, and you can use it to "feel" when a lubed fixing is tight enough. Wheel nuts and spark plugs (which I also like to put anti seize on) come particularly to mind.

I do though, tend to torque things like cylinder head and transmission bolts also safety related items like caliper carrier bolts and suspension components. But they are not going to be frequently loosened and tightened like wheel bolts. But then you have to think, torquing, by it's very nature, is measured at the wrench and is a measurement of turning effort. However what you are, mostly, attempting to do is clamp things together. So, having set your wrench to whatever the spec calls for, let's say 25 nm and we consider how tightly your components are going to be clamped together. Consider just 3 possibilities. # lightly oiled threads, # completely dry threads, # damaged or dirty threads. Your wrench is going to click when it applies 25nm of torque (turning effort) TO THE BOLT HEAD! the clamping effort on the parts being held together is going to be very different though. The modern way of seating things with a low value torque setting and then angle tightening is probably better but still has it's problems (think spark plugs, sump plugs, or anything with crush washers?) And, with the popularity of ally sumps these days, stripped out sump threads are common. We, ex-British Leyland chaps, learned all about that years ago on Mini, Maxi, 1800, etc, etc. First sump I ever Helicoiled was a mini!

So. I won't pretend to have the answer but I know what has worked for me for nigh on 50 years now so, for the next few years, until I can't get up off the ground any more, (getting down there is surprisingly easy though!) I'll just be carrying on doing it the way I've always done it - just "nice 'n' tight"!
 
Mind you we BMC, BL, Whatever (you choose) chaps had life easy compared to the Rootes fellows who for years had been happily "muscling" largely conventional cast iron parts on Minx, Gazelle, etc and then, all of a sudden, the Imp descended upon them. We seldom saw imps in our workshop, but I do remember, in my ignorance and to impress the foreman, (should have known better as the other lads had, by now, rushed off to hide in the loo) agreeing to do a thermostat on one!!! I later came to have a bit of a love affair with them thought, even owned a Husky!
 
I had a plan to fit a souped up Imp engine (998) into a Norton bike frame but I was young and beaten by the engineering involved.


I remember some years later being held up by a rally prepped Hillman Imp on some dark country roads. The Imp had more lights that Starlight Express but the driver didn't have a clue how to take bends. I was driving a bog standard Mini 1000 and not an especially good one either.


PS the best Hilman Imp mod was to fit a front mounted radiator.
 
I had a plan to fit a souped up Imp engine (998) into a Norton bike frame but I was young and beaten by the engineering involved.


I remember some years later being held up by a rally prepped Hillman Imp on some dark country roads. The Imp had more lights that Starlight Express but the driver didn't have a clue how to take bends. I was driving a bog standard Mini 1000 and not an especially good one either.


PS the best Hilman Imp mod was to fit a front mounted radiator.
In the early days at Santa Pod there was definitely an imp engined dragster - I've got a mag with a picture of it! I seem to remember a bike too? I always wanted one of the fire pumps with the Coventry Climax engine powering it!

Sometimes you see some extremely well sorted and quick Imps at hillclimbs. All have front rads. It's aways interesting to look at the engines and suspension set ups and, my how they can rev!

I was changing that thermostat, all those years ago, because the car was overheating. They were well known for it and once you'd had a good brew up the chances were very good that you'd have a warped head and/or the cylinder liners would not pinch the head gasket enough. It's been a long time since I had the head off one but I seem to remember the liners stopped short of the block face? In other words there was a "ring" of aluminium on top of the bores which the gasket rested on? So, once overheated, that was it! Seem to remember they pulled the threads on the head bolts too. I Helicoiled the block on the one I rebuilt for my Husky. Look after the cooling system though and they were great! A bit like the K series really (although a very different engine design).
 
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Oh, Dave, ment to ask. Was it going to be transverse or longitudinal? In the bike that is.

Try googling "E J Potter - Michigan madman" who was famous for his outrageous V8 engined motorcycles. Lots good video too. "Jungle Jim Liberman" and his partner "Jungle Pam" are two more quarter mile characters that make interesting viewing.
 
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Oh, Dave, ment to ask. Was it going to be transverse or longitudinal? In the bike that is.

Try googling "E J Potter - Michigan madman" who was famous for his outrageous V8 engined motorcycles. Lots good video too. "Jungle Jim Liberman" and his partner "Jungle Pam" are two more quarter mile characters that make interesting viewing.

It was way back in the early 80s when I still had my terminally leaking Pre Unit Tiger 100 Triton (alloy barrelled engine in Norton 88 frame) I fitted a Ducati forks complete with Brembo brake but never did get the engine sorted. Sadly, sold it for 2p after I bought a house.

The 850 Imp was to be taken out to 998cc and have at least twin carbs or maybe four Mikunis. It was to be mounted across the frame with a counter shaft and two short chains or toothed belts to align with the bike clutch.

Issues were my elderly Triumph box was probably not up to the power and, as said, I wasn't up to working out how it should all be done. And - of course the money of which I was suddenly bereft due to a mortgage running at least 15% interest.


On the plus - side I worked in a power station so had access to all sorts of machine tools and equipment. A few years later a colleague built one of the first 700cc V twins using Royal Enfield engine parts.
 
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