Technical What spark plugs?

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Technical What spark plugs?

Bailes

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My Mothers 2011 Panda is about 4 months overdue a service and my Sister is taking it to reading in the next few weeks so I'm going to give it a good look over and a service this weekend. My Mother is a district nurse so the car gets an absolute hammering with the worse sort of mileage, start/stop up to 30 times a day and doing very little mileage (5k/pa?).

Only issue I have is there's two different types of plugs available for it.
One has a M12 thread and the other a M14 thread.

Would anyone be able to tell me what thread the car is likely to have?
Or am I better off just pulling one out and taking it straight down to 'factors?


Sam.
 
I Was given NGK bkr5ez 1.2 panda recently they're ok the best I had was densos for my last panda last time at 40k this time at 60k was hardly much wear at 40k. Access isn't the best on panda easy to thread number 2 if you rush. Wouldn't bother getting any Max power iridium platinum multi tip things :)
 
Oops sorry guys! I wrote down it was a 1.2, deleted it and then forgot to put it back!
EuroCarParts lists both 14mm and 12mm plugs when I out the numberplate in, so does halfords and so does my local factors!

I'm always nervous about putting spark plugs in anyway! I just grease the threads and use a bit of rubber piped pushed onto the end of the spark plug to start them off. At least then if you do cross thread them you can't get any torque on them to do any serious damage!
 
Oops sorry guys! I wrote down it was a 1.2, deleted it and then forgot to put it back!
EuroCarParts lists both 14mm and 12mm plugs when I out the numberplate in, so does halfords and so does my local factors!

I'm always nervous about putting spark plugs in anyway! I just grease the threads and use a bit of rubber piped pushed onto the end of the spark plug to start them off. At least then if you do cross thread them you can't get any torque on them to do any serious damage!

hi,
that's the safest way = rubber pipe, (y)
or screw in by hand, and back off 5 turns, then tighten down,
if you've got in 5 turns( without tools/ major resistance), it's NOT cross-threaded ;)

not sure about the 14mm plugs,
probably the later VVT head, :idea:

amazed the registration does not narrow it down..??:(

personally I would spend @ 5 mins removing the #4 ( g-box end) plug , and measure / compare.., (y)

have fun.., and let us know what you find,:)
Charlie
 
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I think they changed from the 14mm to the 12mm at the same time as they went to automatic cambelt tensioner and wider cambelt. Certainly I believe the 12mm are the later ones, and mine has these, and it is early 2006, so your 2011 should be the 12mm.
My 60hp engine uses 12mm, NGK DCPR7E-N-10 (the -10 denotes the plug gap preset by NGK) The 2011 could also be the VVT 70hp engine, so may use the same ones, or another one, but I'd expect 12mm. As advised above, pop one out and see what it is.
 
Serviced the car yesterday.
The spark plugs were indeed 12mm but I didn't change them.
I removed the air filter and the throttle body was dripping in oil. There is two breather pipes that attach to the airbox. One comes off the rocker cover and one comes up from behind the engine and into the air filter. The latter pipe had a split in it. I suspect the engine is blowing past the rings but I need to do a compression test to confirm.

I removed the plugs and they were black, I assume from the burning of oil. I wasn't going to replace them for the new ones to foul up so I cleaned the old ones, reset the gap and refitted.

I grabbed the crank pulley and gave it a tug and there was a good 5mm of crank float.

I also noticed that a seal for one of the selector forks on the gearbox has failed and has been leaking gearbox oil all over the driveshaft.

The oil filter is in a rediculous position and the sump plug design is one of the worse I've seen! I genuinely didn't think it was going to seal when I refitted it. Not sure what size Alan key it was but I didn't have one big enough! A T60 fitted well enough though!

Design flaws aside I'm quite dissapointed with how this car is lasting. I would have expected this of a 100k engine, not a 30k/3year old motor!

Thanks for the advice though guys! Convinced my parents yesterday it's time to let the little panda go! They're thinking of replacing it with a Jimny!
 
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I suspect the engine is blowing past the rings but I need to do a compression test to confirm.

This is quite likely given the type of use it is subjected to. Stop/start short distances are the worst for any engine. The oil needs to be hot to work properly, but it is unlikely to reach full temp with local short trips. It takes longer for the oil to reach temp than the coolant. Each time the engine starts, it will be over-fuelled and some excess fuel will pass the rings, washing the bores, leading to wear. This is true of all engines.

I grabbed the crank pulley and gave it a tug and there was a good 5mm of crank float.

I also noticed that a seal for one of the selector forks on the gearbox has failed and has been leaking gearbox oil all over the driveshaft.

Both effects of lots of work. The mileage recorded does not truly reflect the amount of work done. Crank float is probably due to lots of clutch work, always pushing the crank against its thrust washers, especially if it is held at stops rather than selecting neutral.

The oil filter is in a rediculous position and the sump plug design is one of the worse I've seen! I genuinely didn't think it was going to seal when I refitted it. Not sure what size Alan key it was but I didn't have one big enough! A T60 fitted well enough though!

I agree, the filter is difficult to get to, and most filter tools won't go in the small space.
The sump plug is a taper plug, so seals by being tight in the thread. This design has been used well since the internal combustion engine was invented. It was probably popular for other applications long before that. Think, taper plug in a beer barrel. Only issue is if overtightened, and that's down to the operative, not the design. No leaking washer. It uses a 12mm hex key, although maybe not now as you've used a torx on it, but new plugs are cheap. (and shiny)

Design flaws aside I'm quite dissapointed with how this car is lasting. I would have expected this of a 100k engine, not a 30k/3year old motor!
The engine wear is almost certainly due to the conditions of use, not the design or build quality. These are very strong reliable engines, capable of very high mileages, (with a head gasket at about 50k) and have been around with few changes since about 1985.

Thanks for the advice though guys! Convinced my parents yesterday it's time to let the little panda go! They're thinking of replacing it with a Jimny!

Whatever they buy, if subjected to the same use, will eventually get the same results. When district nurses used bicycles they probably needed tyres, chains and brakes more frequently too.
 
I think my post sounded a bit harsh. I wasn't slagging off the car and a completely understand it's my Mothers driving causing the extreme wear! I was just a bit shocked by it!
My Daily drive is a 2008 Mondeo 1.8TDCi. 140k and it doesn't use a drop of oil and still drives like it's just rolled out of the factory, so you can understand why I was shocked!
Also it seems to have had a wide variation of oil in it since it was new. It came out the factory with 5w40 fully synth, Fiat put 10w40 semi synth in and then last year fiat put 5w30 fully synth in it.
I played it safe and went for 10w40 semi synthetic.

The T60 actually fitted perfectly! I only tried it because my Mondeos caliper sliders are a 7mm Hex but a T45 fits perfectly!

My Mother has 2 years left before she retires so I think I she changes it now then shall change her next car once she had retired!
 
Swap cars with your Mum, then watch as it turns into an oil burner. Maybe not a good idea.
The thickness of the oil is less important than its other qualities, such as film strength, ability to withstand temperature variations, ability to absorb moisture, acids, etc. These qualities are all part of the complicated grading system, shown by the numbers such as ACEA C4/B5, etc. So the different oils used will all be good stuff and not relevant to the current issues. With her driving, changing it more regularly would be a good idea.

Oil can be a problem if too thick is used. A colleague had a Vauxhall Belmont which was one of the first to demand 10w/40 rather than the 20w/50 we were used to. He wasn't having any of that, so used 20w/50. When cold it was too thick to get through the narrow oilways to the camshaft, so it needed a new head and cam at 20,000 miles.
Which would you rather use, 3-in-1 oil, or tar? Both are oil. Tar will have a much higher viscosity number.
 
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