Technical What are common symptoms of seized turbo wastegate?

[MountainRunner]

Hi
If the turbo wastegate actuator on a 1.3 multijet is seized is the most common symptom that engine is unable to get above 3000rpm? I can get rev over 4000rpm so does that mean my turbo is ok?

The reason I ask is I'm sure that my EGR is blocked up as I've got a engine warning light and terrible mpg <34mpg.

But before I clean the EGR I just want to eliminate turbo faults. Then I guess its a case of eliminating a dirty maf sensor or chocked up EGR.

Thanks

 

[irc]

What error code are you getting to trigger the EML?

Actuator worth checking out anyway.
The most common symptom seems to be that the ECU triggers limp mode at 3000rpm-ish with an overboost error and EML lights up.
Not the only symptom though. Have also seen semi-siezed actuator behave fairly normally when driven gently, but harder acceleration trips the error. Usually happens when driven by someone other than the usual driver, so can be a pain to diagnose.
Worth getting a pry bar and gently working the actuator back and forth. Search forum for method if needed.
However, not seen siezed or partially siezed actuator have that kind of effect on fuel economy though.

EGR, on the other hand, seems to have all kinds of random wierd symptoms. Have seen a totally blocked one have virtually no effect at all apart from the error code. Conversely have seen a blocked one make the car run like an old tractor and struggle to do 40mpg.

MAF will apparently sometimes respond well to cleaning, although I haven't managed to revive one for longer than a month or so. Was lucky in having a known good spare last time, so it was easy to diagnose. Beware of cheap ones... May be OK but also might only work for a few weeks before playing up.

 

[dac69er]

seized wastegate/actuator would cause overboost unless it somehow siezed open (very unlikely as it is mostly closed and spring return).

overboost would be sensed by the ECU and bring up a fault code, car would most likely pull harder than normal up until it hit the boost limit.

it is had somehow stuck open, the car would generally drive ok, but just flat due to a lack of turbo boost. i imagine newer cars would sense that no boost was being generated by the turbo and also bring up an engine warning light.


rather than playing the guessing game, check what the error code is that relates to the warning light and work from there.

 

[MountainRunner]

What error code are you getting to trigger the EML?

Actuator worth checking out anyway.
The most common symptom seems to be that the ECU triggers limp mode at 3000rpm-ish with an overboost error and EML lights up.
Not the only symptom though. Have also seen semi-siezed actuator behave fairly normally when driven gently, but harder acceleration trips the error. Usually happens when driven by someone other than the usual driver, so can be a pain to diagnose.
Worth getting a pry bar and gently working the actuator back and forth. Search forum for method if needed.
However, not seen siezed or partially siezed actuator have that kind of effect on fuel economy though.

EGR, on the other hand, seems to have all kinds of random wierd symptoms. Have seen a totally blocked one have virtually no effect at all apart from the error code. Conversely have seen a blocked one make the car run like an old tractor and struggle to do 40mpg.

MAF will apparently sometimes respond well to cleaning, although I haven't managed to revive one for longer than a month or so. Was lucky in having a known good spare last time, so it was easy to diagnose. Beware of cheap ones... May be OK but also might only work for a few weeks before playing up.

I've not yet got a code reader but ordered one on Ebay.
I got under the car to view the wastegate actuator rod while someone revved the engine upto 4000rpm and didn't notice any movement in the rod at any time so I assume its seized? or at what point should the rod open and close the valve?

 

[dac69er]

at a stand still, you wont create enough boost to open the wastegate. i very much doubt that is the issue anyway.

to see if it is seized, try and move it by hand. it should have some resistance due to the spring, but should return back when released.

 

[MountainRunner]

at a stand still, you wont create enough boost to open the wastegate. i very much doubt that is the issue anyway.

to see if it is seized, try and move it by hand. it should have some resistance due to the spring, but should return back when released.

I got under the car and sprayed some Wd40 on the rod then pushed the rod nut with a strong screw driver and moved the rod several times about 5 mm before it sprang back.

Also the warning light is on constantly.

So out of the EGR and MAF sensor, hopefully its the latter that's faulty as they're a lot easier to fix or replace. But I'll check the codes one my code reader arrives in post.

 

[irc]

But I'll check the codes one my code reader arrives in post.

Definitely the best plan.
Actuator only moves a small amount, and it sounds like yours is probably fine. It's worth checking simply because it's free to check, even without having read the codes. However, from here on, it takes time or money (usually both) to diagnose so best to be methodical and start by finding out what is making the ECU unhappy.
Cheap code reader should be able to read the engine Pxxxx code(s) although MultiECUScan is way better for diagnosing anything more complicated.

 

[MountainRunner]

Definitely the best plan.
Actuator only moves a small amount, and it sounds like yours is probably fine. It's worth checking simply because it's free to check, even without having read the codes. However, from here on, it takes time or money (usually both) to diagnose so best to be methodical and start by finding out what is making the ECU unhappy.
Cheap code reader should be able to read the engine Pxxxx code(s) although MultiECUScan is way better for diagnosing anything more complicated.

On thing I have noticed is there has always been a slight amount of diesel leaking from the top of fuel pump can in the back left of the engine bay when looking from the front. Could this leak be one of the possible problems? Perhaps not sufficient fuel pressure?

 

[irc]

It's definitely A problem and needs sorting out. Whether it is some or all of the issue you have is hard to say without physically seeing it.

Read the error code(s) and then post what you find.

Worth checking pipes and connections in that area now anyway, as it only takes a few minutes and costs nothing. A loose pipe would be a cheap fix, but either way the system should have no leaks. It is potentially dangerous and ecologically unsound! And messy.

It's possible that your EGR and MAF are fine, and your pump needs new seals, or you have a split pipe, or a loose connector.

Pxxxx code should give you the info you need to target the right component(s) without randomly changing parts. Or at least enough info for someone on the forum to give meaningful advice.

 

[DaveMcT]

Sort out the fuel leak. There was a thread on the subject in the last week.

Revving above 4000 is pretty pointless with a diesel. Power generally fall off above then so it will move faster if you shift up and put less stress on the engine.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

On thing I have noticed is there has always been a slight amount of diesel leaking from the top of fuel pump can in the back left of the engine bay when looking from the front.

If you mean the green plastic canister with the black plastic top, then this is the fuel filter/water separator - not a pump.

It depends where the leak is here. The top unscrews once you have unclipped the electric plug and the two fuel pipes. This is a maintenance item, and the filter can be renewed - or even flushed and cleaned if you're canny enough. Either way, a leak here is easily fixed. If it lets air into the system (if you park facing uphill for example) you might find your car hard to start sometimes.

It needs to be done, but I don't think this is the primary cause of your troubles.

 

[Louie Bee]

This is a maintenance item, and the filter can be renewed - or even flushed and cleaned if you're canny enough. Either way, a leak here is easily fixed.

Yer that's the fuel filter - it's on the low pressure side.

I'd be really cairfull on the fuel filter on a common rail setup... the high pressure fuel pump / injectors won't stand for dirt ingress like old mecanical setup

Got to be a new fuel filter... much cheaper than a new pump or even an injector (never mind all 4).

You're unlikley to get the filter anywhere clean enough to reuse... don't bother trying IMO.

 

[MountainRunner]

It's definitely A problem and needs sorting out. Whether it is some or all of the issue you have is hard to say without physically seeing it.

Read the error code(s) and then post what you find.

Worth checking pipes and connections in that area now anyway, as it only takes a few minutes and costs nothing. A loose pipe would be a cheap fix, but either way the system should have no leaks. It is potentially dangerous and ecologically unsound! And messy.

It's possible that your EGR and MAF are fine, and your pump needs new seals, or you have a split pipe, or a loose connector.

Pxxxx code should give you the info you need to target the right component(s) without randomly changing parts. Or at least enough info for someone on the forum to give meaningful advice.

I have checked the code with my new code reader and its a P0401- insufficient gas recirculation flow so unfortunately looks like the EGR.
In the mean time as a temporary solution what would happen if I took out the electric control plug going into the EGR solenoid. Would that disable the valve and keep it shut, thus improving my MPG?

 

[Sweetsixteen]

If you unplugged the egr electrics you would get an eml, which you could clear with your new scanner, but after two or three starts the eml light would come back again. You might also find that the car would run more smoothly for a time.

This would depend on how gummed up the egr valve is. It might not be closed due to gunk. Without an electrical connection it will try to stay closed but gunk might get in the way.

But doing this is a stop-gap measure and would not permanently cure your problem. You could blank off the egr by fitting a plate, or electronically disable it, but if you choose to keep it then it will definitely need fixing.

 

[irc]

As Sweetsixteen says, just disconnecting will just throw other errors.
Sounds like your EGR needs sorting. Some have managed to clean them successfully, but it doesn't always work well. Because of the pain involved in removing it, I have tended to replace rather than clean, (although that's personal choice because I have big hands and some arthritis)
Hopefully that will improve things, although the fuel leak may also be contributing, and needs fixing too.
Search the forum for methods of removal/refitting and cleaning.

 

[ktb]

My multijet 1.3 has similar issues, loses power around 2500 rpm. I had a hard time locating the turbo(and wastegate). Can anyone point to/mark the exact location I need to look at, attaching the pictures of the engine bay.


Also, when should be replaced (alternator, power steering etc) ? This is a re-post.

 

[DaveMcT]

Turbo is on the front of the engine hidden by the air cleaner cover.
If the alternator is charging there is no need to do anything.
If the power steering is working there is no need to do anything.

Plenty of threads on the forum for both.