General urgent gearbox help

[bert9k]

I've just found out that 3rd and 4th have gone, after 3rd was jumping out of gear for a few weeks - it only barely engaged as it was. Is there anything to look out for tomorrow when i get the chance to jack it up ?

Bit worrying as i got a 200 mile round trip on monday, and i dont want to risk losing too many more on the way

bert.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I don't know much about gear boxes other than the noise they make when there is no oil in them. But sounds like it might just be the gear selector rod things and theres something on them that sometime wear?!?

Hopefully one of the slightly more mechanical Panda owners will be able to help. Hope its not to serious.

 

[Alan.D]

The gearbox is the most complex part of the car and not something to mess about with unless you really know what you are doing. I'm happy to dabble with most things comfortably but as the tollerances are so fine and the slightest screw up will ruin the box it's best left to experts.

 

[bert9k]

I've spotted the culprit, the 'forward backward' gearshift movement penultimate linking arm is has a load of slack and the placement of the adjusting nut to tighten it makes it an absolute pig to do anything with, puzzlingly it already seems tight as possible and still when turning the rod, the arm doesnt move altogether with it.
I appreciate your comments about the precision involved alan, would go to a garage if the car would move it now, as it is am a bit stumped with no gears at all!, even though it's a 2 spanner job in the haynes manual. there must be another way to access it?

good thing panda has the good sense to give up the gears yards from home saving a whacking expensive towing job

b/

 

[Alan.D]

? I wonder if something has slipped inside?

The levers are ok to work on but anything inside i would say is a no no. I should have made myself clearer

 

[Pandarus]

I would check that you do actually have gearbox oil in the reservoir - check on the state of the driveshaft gaiters, are these ok? If not you will be losing/lost oil.

Cheers

MARTIN

 

[bert9k]

Ouch this is gonna hurt, realised one of the gearbox mounts was lose and what I thought was engine oil from a leaking seal from the top of the engine was in fact gearbox oil when I came to check the oil level, about 3 tablespoons of sludge came out and that was it... there really was nothing wrong with the linkages after all (good spot pandarus)

after putting the links back on and filling with oil. i've now got some very interesting new gears, a noisy kind of half neutral (cant really push the car in this gear - engine seems to turn occasionally), what seems like third and 4th but spin about the same when idling (with front wheels off ground), but no 1st 2nd 5th or reverse (even though reverse light comes on )...they all seem to engage after a load of porridge stirring but on letting the clutch up the engine starts stalling as if the box is locked up and i didnt want to go all the way up with revs i was hit by flying cogs from all directions.

did i mess up all the cogs by pulling the gear leavers on the box in the wrong order while putting the links back on?
am fearing the worst...

b.

 

[Chas Uno]

Sorry to say but your symptoms sound similar to when my Cinq wrecked it's gearbox through lack of oil

 

[bert9k]

o.k. it's not so urgent now that I've got a bus pass ...

anyhows I've decided to change the box, any tips on what can bolt onto a 999 fire if I cant find a panda in any of the yards? I've heard that unos share a lot of the same parts, also what gaskets/seals do I need to replace when going through with it.

last point, there's nothing in the haynes about where to put the axle stands under the car - where abouts do pandas prefer to be propped up ??

b.

 

[oldernowiser]

last point, there's nothing in the haynes about where to put the axle stands under the car - where abouts do pandas prefer to be propped up ??

b.

My preferred option is axle stands with a piece of wood at both ends. Underneath to spread the load and stop it sinking into the tarmac, and on top to stop it chipping paint off the sills (the sills being structural, provided they aren't corroded..)

For belt and braces, I also put any removed wheels (and the spare) under the car, stacked two high if possible. It would do the wheels a mischief if the car fell on them.
It would kill you.. not much of a choice, really.



On the subject of gearboxes - if you're in the south east - ask those visiting scrap yards today if they see any... and if you get one that way, persuade the scrapper NOT to chop the driveshafts with the oxy torch, as there are a number of different options and you'd do well to get the set that belong with the box.

Be aware that from 1993 on there was a change of gearbox (cable controlled change and the bits inside the front footwell to cover that up). I don't know what other differences there are.

All as far as I know.....

 

[bert9k]

thanks onw, maybe someone could answer why the haynes suggests whacking the steering arm balljoints for this job, cant see what thats got to do with taking the driveshafts out??
I just did the tracking recently and for sure I know i didnt need to do it a few years ago last time there was a clutch replacement...

thanks.

 

[Alan.D]

I suppose that would be one way of giving more movement in the hub, I found it much easier to unbolt the drop arm and loosten the tie bar...

 

[Chas Uno]

thanks onw, maybe someone could answer why the haynes suggests whacking the steering arm balljoints for this job, cant see what thats got to do with taking the driveshafts out??

You need to swing the hub outwards as far as possible to withdraw the splined end of the driveshaft from the hub. With the track rod ends (steering arm balljoints) still connected you'll struggle to move the hubs far back enough.

I sometimes also find it easier to remove the whole hub as this gives a lot more room to work in. For that you have to disconnect the hub from the strut (2 bolts), the track control arm (one nut on the ball joint) and undo the single flexi hose bolt from the strut. Oh, and undo the brake caliper as well and suspend it out of the way (I hang it off the strut spring with a piece of wire).

Another tip for those that don't want to remove the driveshaft to hub nut is to remove the driveshaft and hub as one unit. That's often an overall quicker and easier way if all you're doing is changing the inner driveshaft gaiters

 

[Alan.D]

I've tried it all different ways. The quickest by far is loostening the tiebar 19mm pointing to the front of the car and the link arm from it's mount, you also need to remove the 13mm bolt and 17mm nut holding the little bracket between the link arm and tie bar, that's it takes less than 5 min and the driveshaft is easy removed....

Oh! not forgetting removing the driveshaft nut then removing the wheel

Oh! nearly forgot, if you are removing the gearbox you have to remove the tie bar complete or it get's in the way.

 

[bert9k]

thanks chaps good info,
I just got the carriers off and one of them needs replacing due to a busted seal on the lower ball joint, how does one take the hub out of the carrier??, its flatly ignoring my wooden mallet.

Then onto the drive/cv gaiters - the metal fasteners seem unmovable without causing some damage to the rubber or metal, does one just cut them and get new clips? -want to take the outside right hand shaft off so I can put the wheels back on and push panda out of the garage to clear some space for the big job.

wheels still locked into turning in opposite directions atm) so it's either that or dropping it onto 2 skateboards

b/

 

[petel]

Hello Bert.
Are you saying that the rubber boot on the lower ball joint was torn as you separated the joint and if so, is the ball joint itself OK?
Rgds.

 

[Alan.D]

If the rubber round the ball joint is split it's an MOT failure and wont last long in anycase, you will need to get a new ball joint pressed out then pressed in.

The hub and disc cover are bolted through the carrier to the hub...you can have a look in the guides section for more pics.

As for the driveshaft you will need to remove it from the gearbox if you don't want to touch the UJ boots it's only 3x10mm bolts that hold it in place. Remember though that all of the gearbox oil will flow out so drain the gearbox first.

 

[bert9k]

doh, was being a total numpty i meant the bearing out of the break disc, it got more grooves than sly and the family stone, but grinding thats another job i guess.

the bj seal was split but the joint rock solid, shame i cant just bodge it over with black silicone and instead replace it when it starts to wear. are the mot guys really that keen?
anyhows on inspecting the new 5 speed i just got, (100 quid with all shafts), the link arm for up/down stick movement is fixed solid, unlike my old one which had the load of slack i refered to earlier.

thanks for bearing with me here, prob got a few more q's when it come to the clutch and centralising it.

thanks

b/

 

[Alan.D]

Bearing out of the brake disc? the disc is held in place by the sticky out lug 12mm and a 12mm bolt. The only bearing is the hub which is a complete unit.

Don't bother grinding the disc as they are almost as cheap as pads, infact last time I got disc's they were cheaper than the pads....

If the MOT spot the split rubber they will fail it, plus whilst you are doing everything else you may as well replace it now.