General Ulysse 2004 JTD wont start

[pd786]

Any help Gratefully received


After a 350mile trip from rainy Cumbria to London my Ulysse wont start. It turns over fine and started once before dying.


Starter works fine, battery is fully charged


I tried a Lexia on it (left over from Citroens), it can communicate with all ECUS apart from the Engine one which made me think electrical problems. I checked the fuse boxes and nothing is obviously blown. I want to check the ECU connections but don't know how to disconnect it, it has 3 slider type locks on it but I was'nt able to shift them with mild force. Is there a knack to it? Am I barking up the wrong tree?


Thanks Peter

 

[Sinny]

Any help Gratefully received


After a 350mile trip from rainy Cumbria to London my Ulysse wont start. It turns over fine and started once before dying.


Starter works fine, battery is fully charged


I tried a Lexia on it (left over from Citroens), it can communicate with all ECUS apart from the Engine one which made me think electrical problems. I checked the fuse boxes and nothing is obviously blown. I want to check the ECU connections but don't know how to disconnect it, it has 3 slider type locks on it but I was'nt able to shift them with mild force. Is there a knack to it? Am I barking up the wrong tree?


Thanks Peter

Crankshaft sensor seems a likely place to start...

 

[digger58]

Can you hear the fuel pump priming? They give trouble.

 

[pd786]

Can you hear the fuel pump priming? They give trouble.

Thanks I will check that later today and report back


Peter

 

[pd786]

As far as I can tell the fuel pump isn't priming.

 

[varesecrazy]

As far as I can tell the fuel pump isn't priming.

Hi,
basics,;

Immobiliser light come on briefly..then go out - that'll cut fuel supply

TBH - if it cranks at a normal speed then electrical supply should be fine

:idea:might be worth a try of disconnecting battery for a few hours,
let power to all ECU's dissipate,
then reconnect.. may just reset something..,

do let us know what you find,



good luck,
Charlie - Oxford

 

[pd786]

Hi,
basics,;

Immobiliser light come on briefly..then go out - that'll cut fuel supply

TBH - if it cranks at a normal speed then electrical supply should be fine

:idea:might be worth a try of disconnecting battery for a few hours,
let power to all ECU's dissipate,
then reconnect.. may just reset something..,

do let us know what you find,


Thanks for suggestions
I have tried the suggestions offered and have scanned it with my Lexia (Left over from dead Citroens) .


Out of the 20 times I have tried to scan it 19 times all ECUs were accessible apart from the engine ECU. The one time I got access it, it gave lots of error messages including
Low pressure fuel pump short to positive and lots of others incl swirl electrovalve and scarily cylinder 3 not firing.


After clearing them it started fine. I ran it for 20 mins with no problems other than the heater blower had packed up. I cleared the fault with the fan. Overall I felt v pleased with myself, thinking it was fixed. The next day it wouldn't start. Immobiliser fault message on the screen although keys were working. Now I cant communicate with the engine ECU to check the fault......


So the good news is I know its electrical/computer based rather than mechanical. The bad news is I don't know what to do next.


Does anyone know a mobile electrican or garage in NW London I could trust to sort the problem out,


I have ordered a fusebox from ebay in the hope that it is the problem as its cheap (£45) . Someone has delved inside the current one at some stage as a few screws are missing and its been sprayed with some kind of seal.


To remove it completely how do you remove the connection to the big fuses on the lower level, it looks like the 2 parts disconnect but I couldn't quite get it apart, I was a bit worried about knackering it.


From what I have seen of the circuit board inside it doesn't look corroded. That gives me a horrible feeling its either the wiring or the engine ECU itself.


Water has been dripping onto the engine ECU from the scuttle and sitting on it . Does anyone have any advice on how to remove the 3 connector plugs on it to check them? I have tried a fair bit of force and cracked the grey clip on the left hand one. Is there a special way to open them?


thanks

Peter

 

[varesecrazy]

Water has been dripping onto the engine ECU from the scuttle and sitting on it . Does anyone have any advice on how to remove the 3 connector plugs on it to check them? I have tried a fair bit of force and cracked the grey clip on the left hand one. Is there a special way to open them?


thanks

Peter

Hi Peter,
SEARCH the forum for info on these connections,
then reply to any relevant thread

Charlie

 

[pd786]

Thanks for the advice so far


Ebay fusebox arrived soaking wet inside.. a bit worrying


Having a complete one to look at off the car makes it clear its only the upper deck that needs to be changed. The outer black plastic shell is just a box. The lower deck is just a set of terminals the upper deck is a circuit board.


Removing the upper deck.
Its held in by 2 screws top right and bottom left and by several fiddly clips all round. I ended up breaking some of these on my old one. Fortunately the plastic of the tray it sits in is stronger so didn't come to any harm.
Once I got the top deck off I noticed a hole in the side and a little corrosion on the pins. Not obvious.


The "new" one just clipped in, then after re attaching the wires. turn the key and it started, no need to use a lexia to pair it to the car.


I tried to clear all the faults which had emerged previously. The lexia will now communicate with the engine ecu but wont clear the faults. Top of the list is p1107 swirl electrovalve permanent fault, so that's next to check out . However the car starts and runs so that's good progress. Thanks to all for your help


Peter









I changed the fuse box and the car started first time. So far so good.


If anyone has a smiliar problems here are a few observations
1)

 

[varesecrazy]

great news..!!

is the non-communication down to the mis-match of FIAT engine , and French body..??
just a thought..

:idea: if you've got a KKL - vagcom
or ELM 327 lead..,
download the FREE version of MultiECUScan..,

that COULD communicate with the engine well

Ulysee isn't on their list..??

Charlie

 

[digger58]

It's a Pug/Cit engine!

 

[varesecrazy]

It's a Pug/Cit engine!

OK - just confused by the JTD tag..

 

[digger58]

It's actually a HDi engine, I don't know where the JTD idea came from but I've seen it before so you're not the first nor the last! I presume because of the Fiat badge, I was selling my Ulysse Mk 1 ELTD a few years ago and got "I'm not gone on a Fiat" I then asked would they buy a Peugeot version with the old reliable XUD engine I got "No problem" The rest is obvious... ignorance and badge snobbery at it's best! That's why I love Fiats and Citroens, galloping depreciation and few want them, let the new owners take the hit and I come in and pick up the goodies, usually loaded with all the extras.

 

[pd786]

I think the jtd badge is Fiat pretending its not a rebadge job.


Car seems to be working ok now, dark thoughts of replacing it are now retreating. I just need to sort out the swirl electrovalve fault. I am wondering if a new MAP sensor might do it. Worth £30 to experiment I guess.


Last night I also sealed around the leaking seam on the scuttle directly above the engine ecu and spayed it with plastic sealer from Maplins . Probably paranoia as that wasn't the cause of the problem but water dripping onto electrical connections rarely ends well.


Peter